Members · Prefs · Laboratory · Collections · Openings · Endgames · Sacrifices · History · Search Kibitzing · Kibitzer's Café · Chessforums · Tournament Index · Players · Kibitzing

Chessgames premium membership fee will increase to $39 per year effective June 15, 2023. Enroll Now!

Humpy Koneru vs Clive L Waters
"Troubled Waters" (game of the day May-07-2005)
British Championship (1999), Scarborough ENG, rd 7, Aug-09
Zukertort Opening: Black Mustang Defense (A04)  ·  0-1



explore this opening
find similar games 1,149 more games of Koneru
sac: 18...Rxf3 PGN: download | view | print Help: general | java-troubleshooting

TIP: You can get computer analysis by clicking the "ENGINE" button below the game.

PGN Viewer:  What is this?
For help with this chess viewer, please see the Olga Chess Viewer Quickstart Guide.


Kibitzer's Corner
< Earlier Kibitzing  · PAGE 5 OF 5 ·  Later Kibitzing>
Jun-07-07  IMDONE4: Easy for a thursday, but I do like that CG is bringing in the theme of removing the defender more often. Possibly we could also get some incredibly difficult Informator problems where the end is rather than on a Sunday?
Jun-07-07  Crowaholic: a) It's too easy for a Thursday.


b) I'm getting much better.

Since so many others thinks so, too, I'm afraid the answer is a).

Anyway, I saw that in order to mate, Black must move his bishop out of the way to allow Qh2#, and that the knight defends that square. So let's first remove the knight with 18. ..Rxf3. After 19. exf3 Bxg2, White is dead, so what about 19. Bxf3? I noticed that 19. ..Bxf1 20. Kxf1 gives White a new flight square and the queen cannot give check from h1 since the bishop defends it. So why take the rook anyway, it's worse than useless for White. The only other square to put the bishop on is g2, and then it was easy to see that all of 20. Bxg4, Bxg2, Kxg2 or any other White move that doesn't give check leads to mate in 1. And giving check with 20. Qg8+ Rxg8 would only delay the inevitable. Not taking the rook on move 19 leads to catastrophe, too.

Then I thought I must have missed something because this is too easy. The key themes (destroy the guard and clearance for the queen) are easy to see, and White doesn't have many options. Plus, checkmate happens quickly in most lines so there's no need for deep evaluation. All in all, my solution seemed to be more Tuesday or at most Wednesday level. But White really doesn't have any convincing response.

Jun-07-07  Billy Ray Valentine: <cuendillar> I'd go along with most or all of your comments. But I have to say, after 18...Rxf3, even if White plays 19. Qe6 and Black doesn't find the best moves, Black still has moves which will bring home the full point (unless I'm missing something). In a real game, I wouldn't care as long as I pulled home that full point.
Jun-07-07  Crowaholic: <Sredni Vashtar: Congrats, <greensfield>, for considering the line that the <too easy for thursday> crowd missed.>

Personally, I did take a look at 19. Qe6, but considered the position to be dead lost for White after 19. ..Bxg2. And what does White threaten to do anyway? Sacrifice the exchange by giving Q for N or R while Black's king remains in total safety? I confess I didn't calculate it out to a forced mate, but I know enough about chess that if you're a piece and an exchange down, you'd better have some positional compensation. And in this position, White does not get any compensation whatsoever. In fact, Black's pieces are still more active and the king is much more secure. Multiply things with the material advantage and that's enough to realize that Black wins easily, even if it's not a mate in 3.

To illustrate things, 19. Qe6 Bxg2 20. Kxg2 Rf6 may not be the fastest way, but it's not hard to see who's winning these positions:

a) After 21. Qxf6 Qh2+ 22. Kf3 Nxf6

click for larger view


b) After 21. Qxg4 Qxg4

click for larger view


c) After 21. Rh1 Qxh1+ 22. Kxh1 Rxe6

click for larger view

<Billy Ray Valentine: even if White plays 19. Qe6 and Black doesn't find the best moves, Black still has moves which will bring home the full point (unless I'm missing something>

That's exactly my point, although you managed to bring it home more briefly than I did. :-)

Jun-07-07  Sredni Vashtar: <Billy Ray Valentine and Crowaholic> Here's an example line with only one real (but plausible) mistake, I think (<highlighted in this manner>):

18. hxg3 ♖xf3 19. ♕e6 ♗xg2 20. ♔xg2 ♕h2+ 21. ♔xf3 ♖f8+ 22. ♔xg4 <h5+> 23. ♔g5 ♖f5+ 24. ♕xf5 ♘xf5 25. ♔xf5 ♕h3+ 26. ♔g6

It will still take a while to win this:

click for larger view

Granted, I got preoccupied with the line above, and thought 22 ... g6 needs to be a part of the complete solution. 20. ♖f6 does not allow for major mistakes, as <Crowaholic> illustrated.

Jun-07-07  siu02jm: Bg2 is sweet!
Jun-07-07  Warrush: My first thursday in awhile.
Apr-04-08  whiteshark: Koneru in deep waters.
Apr-08-19  saturn2: 19...Bg2 threatens Qh2 and Qh1. White cannot defend both threats at one time
Apr-08-19  malt: 19.Bg2! does the trick.
Apr-08-19  Walter Glattke: 4 mates: 1) 20.Bxg4 Qh1# 2) 20.Kxg2 Qh2#
3) 20.Bxg2 Qh2# 4) 20.Qg8+/20.Rc8+ mating, 20. e.g.e4 4a) Qh2# 4b) Qh1# Interesting, one move, several mate ways.
Apr-08-19  stacase: "Who wants to support my checkmate of the White King?" said the evil Black Queen. "Me me me!" said the Black Knight and Bishop in unison.
Apr-08-19  whiteshark: A woman's thought is still a deep ocean of secrets to me, even eleven years later.
Premium Chessgames Member
  agb2002: Black has both knights for a rook and a bishop.

White threatens Bxg4.

Black can win immediately with 19... Bg2 with the double threat Qh1# and Qh2#.

Premium Chessgames Member
  ChessHigherCat: Nice one, Bg2, but I would be surprised if any real beginners could get it.
Apr-08-19  TheaN: The Monday puzzle here is relatively obvious (once you see the point of two mate threats it's done, pretty much).

What is more interesting is the discussion going on twelve years ago about the Thursday puzzle 18....?

Obviously, 18....Rxf3 is the answer and would properly answer the puzzle. Some claim it's not the end of it, but I'd beg to differ, as neither of White's replies does something practical.

SF9 immediately announces -#9, with 19.Qe6 being the toughest defense. Black mates after 19....Bxg2, but if White does not play any #xf3, Black can destructively retreat the rook and win material: after 19.Qe6 Rf6 -+, after 19.Qe6 Bxg2 20.Kxg2 Rf6 or Rf5 -+. It's not the best, but it wins relatively fast as well.

The actual mate runs <19.Qe6 Bxg2 20.Kxg2 Qh2+ 21.Kxf3 Rf8+ 22.Kg4 g6!> where White has no practical defense against Qh5# <23.Qf6+ Rxf6 24.Rc8+ Nxc8 25.Rh1 Qxh1 26.Kg5 Rf5+ 27.Kg4 h5#>.

Apr-08-19  zb2cr: 19. ... Bg2 threatens both Qh2# and Qh1#. If 20. Bxg2, Qh2#. If 20. Kxg2, Qh2#. White has a couple of "spite checks" in Rc8+ and Qg8+. These delay the proceedings without altering the final result.
Apr-08-19  Cheapo by the Dozen: 19 ... bg2 creates a double mate threat, without opening up any escape squares or otherwise giving White a chance to defend against both threats at once.
Apr-08-19  rudiment: Took me a while to see it but there's nothing White can do after Bg2
Premium Chessgames Member
  drollere: 19. Bg2 and white is fully smothered.
Apr-08-19  An Indianman: Good evening: I found Rxg3. Solved.
Apr-08-19  landshark: <CHC>
I'd also be surprised if any beginners solved this one - Lately a lot of the 'easy' Tuesdays and 'medium/easy' Wednesdays have made me feel like a beginner -
Premium Chessgames Member
  perfidious: Easy one for this life 1200 player.
Apr-08-19  thegoodanarchist: Waters was about 34 y.o. when this game was played. Koneru about 12 y.o.
Premium Chessgames Member

<landshark: <CHC> I'd also be surprised if any beginners solved this one - Lately a lot of the 'easy' Tuesdays and 'medium/easy' Wednesdays have made me feel like a beginner>

This week's Tuesday was none too easy, either, although I got them both. I figure the Monday's at least should encourage beginners rather than make them do a lemming dive off the nearest cliff, chessboard in hand. That inspired me to think up a pun for this one:

<Drowned by C. Water> -

Jump to page #    (enter # from 1 to 5)
search thread:   
< Earlier Kibitzing  · PAGE 5 OF 5 ·  Later Kibitzing>

NOTE: Create an account today to post replies and access other powerful features which are available only to registered users. Becoming a member is free, anonymous, and takes less than 1 minute! If you already have a username, then simply login login under your username now to join the discussion.

Please observe our posting guidelines:

  1. No obscene, racist, sexist, or profane language.
  2. No spamming, advertising, duplicate, or gibberish posts.
  3. No vitriolic or systematic personal attacks against other members.
  4. Nothing in violation of United States law.
  5. No cyberstalking or malicious posting of negative or private information (doxing/doxxing) of members.
  6. No trolling.
  7. The use of "sock puppet" accounts to circumvent disciplinary action taken by moderators, create a false impression of consensus or support, or stage conversations, is prohibited.
  8. Do not degrade Chessgames or any of it's staff/volunteers.

Please try to maintain a semblance of civility at all times.

Blow the Whistle

See something that violates our rules? Blow the whistle and inform a moderator.

NOTE: Please keep all discussion on-topic. This forum is for this specific game only. To discuss chess or this site in general, visit the Kibitzer's Café.

Messages posted by Chessgames members do not necessarily represent the views of, its employees, or sponsors.
All moderator actions taken are ultimately at the sole discretion of the administration.

This game is type: CLASSICAL. Please report incorrect or missing information by submitting a correction slip to help us improve the quality of our content.

<This page contains Editor Notes. Click here to read them.>

Featured in the Following Game Collections[what is this?]
surprise consecutive sacs
from quick knockouts by traps by kevin86
2. g3 Nc6 3. Bg2 f5 4. d3
from tpstar C4 by bgitw
lemgelo's favorite games
by lemgelo
reti1-0 Snyggt avslut lg2
from xfer's favorite games 2006 by xfer
from Weakened Castled Position by patzer2
Brutal Attacking Chess
by JoseTigranTalFischer
For studying !
from Chess is a liberating game. by arielbekarov
Beautiful Endings
by Kingsandsquares
bwmate's favorite games
by bwmate
from members in action by mack
Brutal Attacking Chess
by Timothy Glenn Forney
Fishing in troubled waters.
from Charming Miniatures by syracrophy
Amusing Games
by sleepyirv
Nice attack...(GOTD)
from Collections in Idleness 3 by Trigonometrist
Zukertort Opening: Black Mustang Def (A04) 0-1Remove the Guard
from 1999 Party Like Its 1999 with Fredthebear by fredthebear
Game of the May-07-05
from Games of the day 4 by Herkus
May 7: Troubled Waters
from Game of the Day 2005 by Phony Benoni
Zukertort Opening: Black Mustang Def (A04) 0-1Remove the Guard
from RGIII Stumbled, Fumbled, Recovered? by fredthebear
18...? (Thursday, June 7)
from Puzzle of the Day 2007 by Phony Benoni

Home | About | Login | Logout | F.A.Q. | Profile | Preferences | Premium Membership | Kibitzer's Café | Biographer's Bistro | New Kibitzing | Chessforums | Tournament Index | Player Directory | Notable Games | World Chess Championships | Opening Explorer | Guess the Move | Game Collections | ChessBookie Game | Chessgames Challenge | Store | Privacy Notice | Contact Us

Copyright 2001-2023, Chessgames Services LLC