|
< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 2 OF 2 ·
Later Kibitzing> |
| Jul-04-14 | | SimonWebbsTiger: Black resigns because of 25...Kxf8 26. Rf1 Ke8 27. Nf6 or 26...Bf5 27. Rxf5 |
|
| Jul-04-14 | | M.Hassan: "Difficult"
White to play 22.?
White is a pawn down.
I saw the attack on d5 pawn:
22.Bxd5 exd5
23.Rxf6 Rg4
24.Qe1+ Be7
25.Rf2
White is still behind by a Bishop for a pawn
Can not continue due to shortage of time. |
|
| Jul-04-14 | | Jamboree: SimonWebbsTiger:
I saw that line, but after 27. ... Kd8 28. Nxg8 b4!? and black is still barley alive -- two pawns down, sure, but he has a B for an N, and none of the pawns are passed, and for the moment he's hanging on to his material, and no immediate mate is happening. I repeat my question: If with best play of a 4-move combination, white will only be two pawns up at the end of it, why did black resign at that particular moment? At least make white prove he sees the combo, and then maybe if you're 2 pawns down after that and you don't want to struggle, you can resign then (still not recommended, really). But not BEFORE white plays the "winning" moves. |
|
| Jul-04-14 | | SimonWebbsTiger: @<Jamboree>
29. Nf6 with a continued attack looks simply killing, never mind the winning material advantage. |
|
| Jul-04-14 | | samsonagonistes: 25. Rf8 is a poor end to the combination.25. Re1 is far more terminal (25. ......Kd8 26.Rxf8 Rxf8 27. Qxg5 or 25. .....Kd7 26. Nb6 when he loses his Queen after Qxb6 or gets mated if he moves his King) |
|
| Jul-04-14 | | pedro99: SimonWebbsTiger is a chess player. The other commentators should try harder. You could start by actually trying to analyse, although with knight, queen and rook pointing at a lonesome king it should be blindingly obvious that black is kaput. |
|
| Jul-04-14 | | SimonWebbsTiger: why thank you <Pedro99>, esp. because it is my birthday today. :) 29. Nf6 in <Jamboree>s line -- after 28...b4 -- sets up the rather "brutal" Nxg4 and Ne4/Nh7. 29...Bf5 sets up the trick 30. Qxg5 Bxc2, but simply 30. Qd4 with a winning attack. Ribli had good reason to resign. Material behind, killer white attack, a GM that was World championship challenger v Petrosian the year before, and one that had spotted 18. e5! and 22. Bxd5! Yup, 1-0 time. In <M. Hassan>s line 23...Rg4 is met by 24. Re1 Be7 25. Rxe7 Kxe7 26. Nxd5 Ke8 27. Rf8 mating, which is rather cute. |
|
| Jul-04-14 | | pedro99: SimonWebbsTiger is a chess player. The other commentators should try harder. You could start by actually trying to analyse, although with knight, queen and rook pointing at a lonesome king it should be blindingly obvious that black is kaput. |
|
| Jul-04-14 | | stacase: Once you figure out 22 Bxd5 it sort of plays itself. |
|
| Jul-04-14 | | Dr. J: I thought a better defense was 23...Rg7 24 Nxd5 Be7. What would White do against this? |
|
| Jul-04-14 | | torrefan: 25.Re1. Then double rooks on the e-file. A king that exposed can't last long |
|
| Jul-04-14 | | morfishine: I think both 22.Nxd5 & 22.Bxd5 are strong, breaking up the Black position. (1) 22.Bxd5 Bg7 23.Ne4 Rxd5 24.Rxd5 exd5 25.Nxf6+ Bxf6 26.Qxf6 (2) 22.Nxd5 exd5 23.Rxd5 Rhg8 24.Qe4+ Be7 25.Rxd7 Kxd7
26.Qc6+ Kd8 27.Rd1+
*****
PM: For me at least, the difficulty in visualizing the attack from this position is first, deciding between 22.Nxd5 & 22.Bxd5, and second, finding the best follow up moves for one side or the other. For example, I figured Black just couldn't allow White's hungry rook to invade with 23.Rxf6 so thought 22.Bg7 was his best chance *****
Happy Birthday <SimonWebbsTiger>! ***** |
|
Jul-04-14
 | | Penguincw: I didn't see white have a bishop on the board so would've played 22.Nxd5. |
|
| Jul-04-14 | | awfulhangover: After Rxf8+? black resigned too early.My Fritz 14 shows that white must find the best moves to maintain a slight plus after Kxf8.
Hint! :
1. Choose chess viewer deluxe.
2. Right click with mouse over the board.
3. Choose Copy Position
4. The Fen Notation appears
5. Copy this, open your Fritz or other, and Paste position! |
|
Jul-04-14
 | | Once: <awfulhangover: After Rxf8+? black resigned too early.> I agree. I couldn't see a quick kill for white. My (older) Fritz found 25. Rxf8+ Kxf8 26. Rf1+ Ke8 27. Nf6+ Kd8 28. Nxg8 Qd2 
click for larger viewWhite is up a couple of pawns, so Black has a grisly game in store. But no-one ever won a game or salvaged a half by resigning. <morfishine: Happy Birthday <SimonWebbsTiger>!> Seconded! |
|
| Jul-04-14 | | Cheapo by the Dozen: I'm stumped. It looks like the answer should be a sacrifice at d5, but I don't see how to get more than rook and 2 pawns vs. 2 bishops after 22 Bxd5 exd5
23 Nxd5 Rxd5
24 Rxd5 Be7
25 Rxh5 Rxh5
26 Qxh5+ Kd8
since alternatives like
22 Bxd5 exd5
23 Nxd5 Rxd5
24 Qxf6
seem to run afoul of Black's back-rank pressure, especially the queen's coverage of e1. I did calculate that Black doesn't look good if he declines 22 Bxd5, since passive defense leaves even-ish material and a nasty White attack, while more active declining runs into lines like 22 Bxd5 Rg4
23 Qxf6 R(g)g8
24 Bxe6 Rh6
25 Bxd7# |
|
Jul-04-14
 | | Jimfromprovidence: If black follows 22 Bxd5 with 22...Be7, below, (to protect the f pawn) I do not see any easy continuation for white.
click for larger viewHe cannot play 23 Rxf6 now so it looks like he has to retreat the bishop. |
|
| Jul-04-14 | | SimonWebbsTiger: Thx for the wishes.
I had seen this game before and, upon checking my books, it is no surprise. It is game 78 in "Spassky's 100 Best Games" by Bernard Cafferty (Batsford, 3rd ed. 1979.) <Jim> suggests 22...Be7. This was indeed mentioned by Cafferty as the way to hold on, although 23. Bb3 leaves White well on top in view of ideas like Rfe1, Qd4 and Ne4. With re. to <Once>s line with 28...Qd2. I just checked with Fritz to see what its top line was. 29. b3. <Once> normally tells a story, so in lieu of one from <Once>, I shall tell an anecdote! Nigel Short was recently commentating on Norway Chess. In one game he suggested a b2-b3 and Kb1-b2 idea, duly played by the GM with White. Nigel said something on the lines: it often pays to tidy up the king position when you can before launching an assault because it could be useful. The safety of the respective Kings is pretty important; the Black king is never going to be safe. |
|
| Jul-04-14 | | M.Hassan: <After 25. ...Kxf8, what next?> With the help of Chessmaster, I worked out the following line: 25............Kxf8
26.Rf1+ Ke8
27.Nf6+ Kd8
28.Nxg8! wonderfu, knight can not be captured due to the pinned Rook. 28.............Qd2
29.Nf6 Bf5
30.Ne4 Bxe4
31.Qxe4 Rxg2
32.Qa8+ Ke7
33.Qb7+ Ke6
34.Qf7+ Ke5
35.Rf5+ Kd5
36.Qe5+ Kc4
37.Qc5#
That means black saw 12 moves ahead and resigned! |
|
| Jul-04-14 | | PJs Studio: I chose 25.Re1+ over 25.Rxf8. I assume Spasski's continuation is better, or at least a simpler win. |
|
Jul-04-14
 | | agb2002: White has a bishop and a knight for the bishop pair and a pawn. The first idea that comes to mind is 22.Nxd5 Rxd5 23.Rxd5 exd5 24.Qxf6 Rh6 25.Bxh5+ Rxh5 26.Qxf8#. However, Black would not be so cooperative. Another idea is 22.Bxd5 to expose the black king:
A) 22... exd5 23.Nxd5
A.1) 23... Be7 24.Qe4
A.1.a) 24... Qd8 25.Nxf6+ Kf7(8) 26.Nxd7+ with two extra pawns and attack. A.1.b) 24... Re5 25.Nxf6+ Bxf6 26.Qg6+ Kd8 (else wins both rooks or mates) 27.Qxf6+ Re7 28.Qxh8+ with two pawns and an exchange ahead and attack. A.1.c) 24... Rg7 25.Nxf6+ and 26.Nxd7 + - [R+N+2P vs 2B] and attack. A.1.d) 24... Rxd5 25.Rxd5 looks very favourable for White with the threats 26.Re1 Qd8 27.Red1 and 26.Qg6+ Kd8 (26... Kf8 27.Rxf6+ Bxf6 28.Qxf6+ with mate attack) 27.Red1. A.2) 23... Bg7 24.Qe4+
A.2.a) 24... Re5 25.Nxf6+ as in A.1.b.
A.2.b) 24... Kd8 25.Qe7+ Kc8 26.Nxf6 looks winning (26... Bxf6 27.Qxd7+ Kb8 28.Qd6+ and 29.Qxf6 + - [2P]; 26... Bc6 27.Qe6+ followed by Rd6). A.2.c) 24... Kf7(8) 25.Qe7+ and 26.Qxd7 with an extra pawn and attack. A.3) 23... Rxd5 24.Rxd5 looks similar to A.1.d.
B) 22... Be7 23.Bf3 and White has recovered the pawn and threatens 24.Ne4 (24... f5 25.Qd4 + -). |
|
| Jul-04-14 | | TheBish: Spassky vs I Bilek, 1967 White to play (22.?) "Difficult"
This definitely looks like a piece sac situation to get at Black's king. Spassky vs I Bilek, 1967 White to play (22.?) "Difficult"
This definitely looks like a piece sac situation to get at Black's king. So the question seems to be whether to go with 22. Bxd5 or Nxd5. But it seems much better to end up with the knight on d5 to attack f6. 22. Bxd5! and now:
(a) 22...exd5 23. Nxd5 (23. Rxf6 also is strong) Bg7 (or 23...Be7 24. Rfe1 seems crushing) 24. Qe4+ Re5 25. Qg6+ Kf8 26. Rxf6+! with a winning attack. (b) 22...b4 23. Ne4! and the dual attack on f6 and g5 is overwhelming, e.g. 23...Rxd5 24. Nxf6+ and 25. Nxd5+, or 23...Be7 24. Bb3! followed by capturing on f6 or g5. |
|
| Jul-05-14 | | Moszkowski012273: Yeah 25. Re1+... is the much better way to go. |
|
| Mar-19-18 | | edubueno: Paliza terrible. |
|
| Sep-10-18 | | edubueno: La posible terminación serÃa +2.63 25...Kxf8 26.Rf1+ Ke8 27.Nf6+ Kd8 28.Nxg8 Qd2 29.b3 Kc8 30.h3 Bd7 31.Qe4 Kc7 32.Nf6 Bc6 33.Qe7+ Kb6 34.Ne4 Bxe4 35.Qxe4 Rd5 36.Rf6+ Rd6 37.Rxd6+ Qxd6 38.g4 hxg4 39.hxg4 Qf6 40.Qe3+ Kb7 41.g5 Qg7 42.a3 Qg6 43.Qf3+ Kb6 44.Qf6+ Qxf6 45.gxf6 |
|
 |
|
< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 2 OF 2 ·
Later Kibitzing> |
Kibitzing
