|
< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 11 OF 20 ·
Later Kibitzing> |
| Feb-18-09 | | fich: <Later, after the war, (when he was dead), suddenly all the sovietics accusations to be a nazist collaborator vanished like snow under the sun.> Yep, when he died "mysteriously" alright choking on a piece of meat. Accident? Perhaps. Has there been a new light shed about Alekhine's death? |
|
| Feb-27-09 | | RandomVisitor: <Al2009> has suggested the following improvement: 21.Ng3-f5. Presented is analysis using Rybka3 21...a5 22.f4 Nf8 23.Re3 Nc5 24.Qxa4 Nxa4 25.Ba3 b5 26.Ne7+ Rxe7 27.Bxe7 Ra7 28.Ba3 Rb7 29.f5 b4 30.cxb4 axb4 31.e6 fxe6 32.fxe6 Nxe6 33.Rxe6 h6 34.Ra6 Nc3 35.Bb2 Ne4 36.Ra8+ Kh7
± (0.93) Depth: 26 312:34:08 2117200kN, tb=9
on 21...g6 22.Ne3 there is:
[+1.00] d=24 2...Qc6 3.f4 f6 4.g3 b5 5.Qg2 Kg7 6.Qxd5 Rac8 7.Ba3 a5 8.Rf2 Qxd5 9.Nxd5 Rc6 10.exf6 Nxf6 11.Rxe8 Nxe8 12.Re2 Rc8 13.Re7 Kh8 14.Rd7 Ra8 15.Kf2 Rb8 (105:52.09) 14032607kN [+0.96] d=23 2...Kh8 3.f4 Qc6 4.Ba3 f6 5.g3 b5 6.Qg2 Nb6 7.exf6 Qxf6 8.Nxd5 Qc6 9.Ne7 Qxg2 10.Kxg2 a5 11.Bd6 Nd7 12.Nd5 b4 13.cxb4 a4 14.b5 Nxd4 15.b6 Nc2 16.Rxe8 (41:30.43) 6019142kN after
21...g6 22.Ne3 Qc6 23.f4 f6 there is
[+1.05] d=21 24.g4 b5 25.Qg2 Nb6 (15:15.03) 1999388kN [+0.86] d=21 24.g3 b5 25.Qg2 Kg7 26.Ba3 a5 27.Qxd5 Ra6 28.Rf2 Qxd5 29.Nxd5 Rc6 30.Kg2 Kf7 31.Ne3 Rc7 (35:49.22) 6433038kN |
|
| Mar-27-09 | | WhiteRook48: can someone explain why this is the pun? |
|
Apr-09-09
 | | offramp: Devoting large-scale analysis to this game is like a doctor giving heroin to a detective who is just about to crash his gyrocopter. |
|
| Apr-19-09 | | JaneEyre: This round 11 game took place in Rotterdam, not Amsterdam. Only 3 of 14 rounds occurred in Amsterdam. Here's the schedule: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AVRO_t... |
|
| Apr-19-09 | | TheChessGuy: <WhiteRook48> The pun refers to Botvinnik's passed e-pawn. |
|
| May-01-09 | | WhiteRook48: Botvinnik considers this his best game. |
|
| May-10-09 | | WhiteRook48: 30 Ba3!! |
|
| Jun-02-09 | | totololo: I prefer
Lilienthal vs Capablanca, 1935 |
|
| Jul-06-09 | | WhiteRook48: <laskereshevsky> lol |
|
| Aug-05-09 | | JG27Pyth: I discovered this game while playing through Botvinnik games using Guess-the-move. WOW! What an awesome way to encounter a game like this... and what a game. Give me some props: 30.Ba3 was one of my candidate moves there, (okay i rejected it, but still... ;) I'm not qualified to bestow, "greatest this or that" upon chess games... but the strategic problems each great master sets the other, and the creativity with which they handle those problems, makes this one greatest games I've ever had the pleasure to study. I just adore Botvinnik. I think I have a man-crush on a dead dour Soviet electrical engineer. |
|
| Aug-13-09 | | WhiteRook48: they just covered up his previous loss to Capa |
|
| Aug-18-09 | | capin: Is marvelous how simple players, like me, can now reject the words of some chess genius only because we have an incredible chess brain in our homes. For example, after 21. Qf2, Kasparov believes that Botwinnik was winning, but he is totally wrong. Kasparov said: the clouds are growing thicker over the black king. But not, really the opposed situation is present, only that Capablanca moves the rook to the wrong square with 25. --- Re8! (by Kasparov, but this is an error, see one of my previous post). The correct move is Rf8!! I believe that Capablanca was trying to win with the queen side pawns while resist the attack against his king, but makes a tactical error, not a strategic error. Strategically, Capablanca is winning. The Rybka 3.0 engine gives these moves: 25. --- Rf8!! 26. Qf4 Ne4 27. Qh6 gxf5 28. Qe6+ Rf7 29. Nxf5 Qd7 30. Nh6+ Kg7 31. Qxf7+ Qxf7 32. Nxf7 Kxf7 and now the game is a win for Capablanca. During several moves Rybka believes that white is better, but 15 moves later Rybka can start to see the black advantage. This is why I’m saying that strategically Capablanca is winning. Certainly, 21. Qf2 is a bad move but for humans. Still for Capablanca, Botwinnik or Kasparov the position is really difficult. I believe that Botwinnik is bluffing when he speak about great advantage after 21. Qf2. Anyway Capablanca was evaluating better than Botwinnik the possibilities of the position. Capablanca makes a weak move with 15. --- Nb8, but only 2 important errors:
17. --- Na5?? because is premature, the black side needs first assurance his king. Rybka 3.0 gives 17. --- h5!!, now the white side cannot attack the black king. 25. --- Re8?? again because expose his king to the attack.
The Kasparov words about Capablanca can’t understand this position because there are hidden dynamic factors is obviously garbage. I believe Kasparov envy the intuition of Capablanca. |
|
| Aug-18-09 | | parisattack: <capin: Is marvelous how simple players, like me, can now reject the words of some chess genius only because we have an incredible chess brain in our homes.> Excellent post, thought provoking - and I tend to agree with you. I remember Kasparov annotating this game in a newspaper column in the mid-1990s. I sensed the analysis was superficial and a bit 'Chernevy' in that he had a preconceived notion of the game and was writing to fulfill it. |
|
| Aug-18-09 | | Kaspablanca: In a simul Capablanca played a young boy and said; boy, someday you will be world champion; that boy was Botvinnik. |
|
| Aug-29-09 | | KingG: <Strategically, Capablanca is winning.> Capablanca may not be losing, but he is certainly not winning. White can force a draw in many ways. For example 25...Rf8 26.fxg6 fxg6 27.Re6 Kg7 28.Nf5+ gxf5 29.Qxf5 Nxd4! 30.Qg5+ Kh8 31.Qh4+. I'm pretty sure that Capablanca did in fact underestimate the strength of White's attack, otherwise he probably would not of played into the position. Just because the latest version of Rybka finds a miracle defence, it doesn't mean that his intuition was correct. This variation of the Nimzo-Indian is no longer popular these days, mainly because White's superiority in the center gives him a larger advantage than in other lines, something that Botvinnik understood better than Capablanca. Also, could you explain how 17...h5 prevents Black from being attacked? If it were that simple, then Black would have nothing to fear in these positions. |
|
| Aug-30-09 | | RandomVisitor: <capin>After 25...Rf8 there is: 1: Mikhail Botvinnik - Jose Raul Capablanca, Netherlands It, Amsterdam (11) 1938
click for larger viewAnalysis by Rybka 3 :
1. (0.72): 26.Qf4 Ne4 27.Qe5 Qd7 28.Nxe4 dxe4 29.fxg6 Qf5 30.gxh7+ Kxh7 31.Qxe4 Qxe4 32.Rxe4 Nd2 33.Re7+ Kg8 34.g4 Rf4 35.d5 Rxg4+ <21-ply> 2. (0.65): 26.fxg6 hxg6 27.Re6 Kg7 28.Qe3 <20-ply> |
|
| Aug-30-09 | | Sularus: <Kaspablanca>
I read that in a magazine.
But I think it happened like this.
After the simul, Capa asked the official(s) what grade the boy in spectacles (Botvinnik) belong to and he was told that the boy was a B player. Capa laughed and supposedly said, "That boy plays with the heart of a champion. He will go far." |
|
| Aug-31-09 | | AnalyzeThis: <KingG: Are you saying this game doesn't deserve to be well known on it's own merits? > The answer would be no.
<KingG: And since when are previous encounters taken into consideration when judging the quality of a game? > They are not, and I never said they were.
What I was basically saying was, I never knew, until I came to chessgames, of the Capablanca vs. Botvinnik game where Capablanca won. That is also a hard fought and intersting game, where Capablanca showed admirable qualities in pulling out a win from a difficult position. Actually, I'll ask you: can you name any book or magazine - just one - that published that game with annotations? |
|
Aug-31-09
 | | LIFE Master AJ: http://www.ajschess.com/lifemastera... My analysis of this game ... it has its own re-play page as well ... |
|
| Aug-31-09 | | RandomVisitor: <LMAJ>seems to have a detailed analysis of the 25...Rf8 line. Perhaps he can look at the variation 25...Rf8 26.Qf4 Ne4 27.Qe5 Qd7 as well. |
|
| Aug-31-09 | | slomarko: i read all the time on CG weasel about Capa: the biggest natural talent, he was unbeatable, unbelievable feel for the game etc etc etc etc but game clearly shows that Botvinnik could make him look stupid easily. |
|
Aug-31-09
| | LIFE Master AJ: <<RandomVisitor> "<LMAJ> seems to have a detailed analysis of the 25...Rf8 line. Perhaps he can look at the variation 25...Rf8 26.Qf4 Ne4 27.Qe5 Qd7 as well.">> I will get back to you in a few days. I want (at least) a few solid hours of machine time, before I go jumping to any conclusions. |
|
| Aug-31-09 | | psmith: <RandomVisitor> <LIFE Master AJ>:
May I make a suggestion? 25...Rf8 26.Qf4 Ne4 27.Qh6 looks good to me. Any thoughts? |
|
| Aug-31-09 | | RandomVisitor: After 25...Rf8 26.Qf4 Ne4 27.Qe5:
1: Mikhail Botvinnik - Jose Raul Capablanca, Netherlands It, Amsterdam (11) 1938
click for larger viewAnalysis by Rybka 3 :
<27...Qd7> 28.fxg6 hxg6 29.Nxe4 dxe4 30.Ba3 Re8 31.Qg3 Re6 32.Rxe4 Qe8 33.Rxe6 Qxe6 34.h4 Nd2 35.Bc1 Ne4 36.Qb8+ Kf7 37.Qxa7+ Qe7 38.Qa6 Qxh4 39.Qxc4+ Kg7 40.Qe2 b5 41.Bd2 Nxd2 42.Qxd2 Qe4
± (0.87) Depth: 23 05:36:48 1546869kN, tb=91 |
|
 |
|
|
< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 11 OF 20 ·
Later Kibitzing> |
Kibitzing
sac: 30.Ba3