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Later Kibitzing> |
| Jan-17-15 | | mistreaver: Saturday. Black to play. 25...? Very Difficult?
White has a very weak king position. Black's c3 is kinda clamping down on the position.
My first idea is just to play
25... Qc4
The idea is to bring the queen to b2.
The most obvious white move is:
26 Bxd5 Nxd5 (if 26... Qxb4 then 27 Bxb3)
27 Qxd5 Qxb4
28 Rxd4 Qb2+
29 Kd1 Qxb1+
30 Ke2
and now Qxc2 or Qxa2 wins
Is there a better defence for white?
I don't see any.
Time to check and see.
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Oh, i missed the counter sacrifice on c3, completely forgot about it.
But i don't understand what does it change.
Ok, i calculated amazingly superficially. Better luck tomorrow. |
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Jan-17-15
 | | Penguincw: 25...Bxa2 is a free pawn. Oh wait, the queen is hanging. :( At least I got the "puzzle" of the final position: 45.Ke4 Re2+ 46.Qxe2 Qxe2+ 47.Kd4 Qd2+ 48.Kc5 Qxd7, and black is up a full queen. |
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| Jan-17-15 | | gofer: There are just three things to say;
1) Black doesn't have to worry about Bxh7+ or Qh5
as these feeble attacks go nowhere, without more
pieces to help out.
2) Black wants to protect against Rxd4
3) Black wants to play Qxb4 threatening Qb2#
So from my perspective the choice is obvious.
<25 ... Qc4>
White has to defend against Qxb4 and Qxa2 both of
which then threaten Qb2#
26 Rxd4 Qxd4 
26 Bxd5 Nxd5
This leaves the rather desparate option of...
<26 Nxc3 dxc3>
Black has secured Pc3 for the moment and given white
a difficult choice, take Bd4 or attack Pc3.
27 Rd3 Bxd4
28 Rxd4 Qa2
29 Rxc3 a3!
30 Kd2 Rfe8+
31 Ke2 Qa1
27 Bxd5 Qxb4
29 Rd3 Rad8!
30 Bd4 Nc4
27 Rxd5 Qxa2
click for larger view~~~
What is so wrong with <27 Rxd5 Qxa2>??? |
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| Jan-17-15 | | KingsPawns: I've got 25... Qc4, that' all I can say.
But in this defense line I would rather play 27... Qxa2 28 Ka4 Nxd5 29 Bxd5 Rd8 |
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| Jan-17-15 | | WDenayer: 25. ... Qc4 is clear because it threatens an almost instant win. The problem is 26. Nxc3, so take the N, then White plays 27. Rd5. After this, I do no longer understand the game because why not simply 27. ... Qxa2 28.Qxc3 Bxe4 ? Black is a piece up and he has a winning attack with a3, Na4 Rb8 Rc8 if White would ever take the c pawn. |
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| Jan-17-15 | | Bycotron: Alas, I am in a huge hurry this morning and had only a minute to study the position. Fortunately, it did not take that long to spot 25...Qc4 with the idea of Qc4-a2-b2/b1 routing white. I see no defense so this is my submission. Hail! |
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| Jan-17-15 | | Longview: The only forcing moves that I could find were 25....Q-c4 and 25...f5. Q-c4 seemed to be moving in the direction of improving Black's position threatening Qxa2 and Q-b2#. I did not notice the Nxc3 response for some reason. The responses from there all seem very natural 26.... dc3 27. Rd5 Nd5 28. Bd5 Qb4 29. Ba8 but I am lost from there to close it out. I thought white did well to regain some initiative and attack. I don't know what the engines say about the balance but it looks like it goes back and forth. |
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Jan-17-15
 | | Jimfromprovidence: Rybka freeware finds a clever defense for white that limits the damage to a piece for a a pawn, 26 Bxh7+!?
click for larger viewBlack has to accept the sacrifice because of the threat 27 Qh5 with a discovered check to follow. So, after 26...Kxh7, 27 Qd3+ gets both queens off of the board. 
click for larger view |
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| Jan-17-15 | | Edeltalent: <Jimfromprovidence> I wouldn't call this a clever defense at all. An engine may think that it's limiting the damage, but from a human perspective, Bxh7+ is just lost, while Nxc3 offers many chances for Black to go wrong (as the game shows). |
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Jan-17-15
 | | chrisowen: Base jump gob bow c4 saviour at hand i c6
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lines if queen takes a2 instead of a give b6
in line d5 at a waves i link have product amble give spark head d5 centre-ground over straight port of call hive for one a foilable mission select rams eline padre did e4 off in fly cuffed am cad flight aim ead try deed act bind a cutoff point clasps aim dink queens eg ment i quarter back in a c4 honour and hope infer ave tile ground a dips delve spark it nip in cuff d5 bishop a do i oomph c6 jocular sentry back clink affable queen aim dips a bone of contention in jail |
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Jan-17-15
| | Jimfromprovidence: <Edeltalent> <I wouldn't call this < 26 Bxh7+> a clever defense at all>. It depends. If you have calculated that you are about to lose massive amounts of material to avoid mate then 26 Bxh7+ makes a lot of sense. If you think the more complicated the position is the better are your chances regardless of the strength of your opponents position then 26 Nxc3 might be better. But that is a double-edged sword. In this case, black blundered away an easy win by missing 27...Qxa2.
click for larger viewWhite has two choices here, move the king to d1 to avoid mate and lose the d rook next move or play Qxc3 to avoid mate and lose the d rook next move. |
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| Jan-17-15 | | morfishine: <Jimfromprovidence> Yes, 27...Qxa2 is the move missed by Black, which I suppose was the point of 25...Qc4 in the first place [ie: My initial impression was <25...Qc4> wins on the spot with the Black Queen invading via <a2>] ***** |
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| Jan-17-15 | | Cheapo by the Dozen: OK. I saw lines that got to Black being a pawn up, but it was doubled and isolated, and thought I was missing something better. At least, I thought I saw such lines. I definitely didn't see ... Rd8, leading to what amount to d-file pins against a b2 mate threat. |
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| Jan-17-15 | | dfcx: 25...Qc4 looks very good, with Qxb4 and Qxa2 in mind next. White king has no escape and
A) 26.Bxd5 Nxd5 27.Nxc3 Nxc3 and I do not see any good defense for white
B) 26. Nxc3 is probably the best defense.
26...dxc3 27.Bxd5 Qxb4! and black looks strong.
In the game line, black misplayed. 27...Qxa2 is much stronger, as found by crafty.
click for larger view
28.Qxc3 Nxd5 and white is down a rook.
28.Kd1 Nxd5 29.Bxd5 Rad8 pins the bishop.
click for larger view |
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| Jan-17-15 | | RandomVisitor: 22.Ne4!?
click for larger viewRybka 4.1 x64: <22...c4 possibly> <+0.38/23 22...Ra5> 23.b4 axb3 24.Qxa5 bxa2 25.Kb2 c4 26.Ka1 cxd3 27.Rxd3 Rb8 28.Rxd4 Nd5 29.c4 Qb7 30.Qb5 Qa8 31.Qxb8+ Qxb8 32.cxd5 Bxh3 33.d6 cxd6 34.exd6 Qb6 35.Nc5 h6 36.Rc1 Bf5 37.Rdd1 Bg4 |
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| Jan-17-15 | | M.Hassan: "Very Difficult"
Black to play 25...?
Equal in forces
25.........Qc4 seeking to mate on b2 by first taking a2
White should be very scared of c3 pawn:
26.Nxc3
A)
26...........dxc3
27.Bxd5 Nxd5
28.Qxd5
Preventing black Queen from taking the a2 pawn
28..........Qxb5
29.Rd3 Qb2+
30.Kd1 Qb1+
31.Ke2 Qxc2+
32.Kf3 Qb2
33.Rdd1 c2
34.Rc1 Rb8
35.Qd2
I don't think Black can promote the pawn
35.........Qxa2
36.Qxc2
Black is a pawn up.
B)
26............Qxc3
27.Qxc3 dxc3
28.Bxd5
I don't think Black uses this line because he will loose material.
Have to check the game |
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| Jan-18-15 | | RandomVisitor: Final look, 22.Ne4!?
Rybka 4.1 x64:
+0.29/24 22...Ra5 23.b4 axb3 24.Qxa5 bxa2 25.Kb2 c4 26.Ka1 cxd3 27.Rxd3 Rb8 28.Rxd4 Bd5 29.Red1 h6 30.Nc3 Be6 31.Rd8+ Rxd8 32.Rxd8+ Kh7 33.Qb4 Nc4 34.Nd1 Bxh3 35.Qc3 Be6 36.Nb2 g6 37.Nxc4 Bxc4 |
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| Jan-18-15 | | Edeltalent: <RandomVisitor> Judging from the earlier kibitzing (2007), the game score is probably incorrect and should read 18.b3 instead of 18.h3. Then 22.Ne4 would be met by axb3. |
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| Jan-18-15 | | RandomVisitor: <Edeltalent>This site: http://www.redhotpawn.com/chess/gra... has 18.h3, if you play through the game. |
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| Jan-18-15 | | RandomVisitor: <Edeltalent>This site: http://chesstempo.com/gamedb/game/1...
also has 18.h3. |
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| Jan-18-15 | | RandomVisitor: <Edeltalent>This site:
chesslab.com
has <18.b3>. Go figure. |
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| Jan-18-15 | | RandomVisitor: <Edeltalent>This site: http://www.365chess.com/players/Dav... has 18.h3. |
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| Jan-18-15 | | RandomVisitor: <Edeltalent>This site: http://www.chessatwork.com/chess/gr... has 18.h3. |
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| Jan-18-15 | | RandomVisitor: And finally:
This site (Russian)
http://al20102007.narod.ru/ch_urs/1...
gives 18.h3. Since it is a Russian site I would expect that they would know best. |
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| Jan-18-15 | | RandomVisitor: However... 18.b3 is the better move...
click for larger viewRybka 4.1 x64:
-0.36/18 18.Re1 Na4 19.Nc4 Be6 20.Ne5 Qb6 21.b3 Nc3 22.f5 Bc8 23.Bc4 a6 24.h4 Qh6+ 25.Kb2 Qd6 <-0.40/18 18.b3> a5 19.Qxa5 Bg4 20.Re1 Ra8 21.Qb5 Qxb5 22.Bxb5 Rxa2 23.h3 Bd7 24.Bxd7 Nxd7 25.Nc4 Rb8 26.Rd1 Kf8 27.Rhe1 Ke7 28.Rd3 Rba8 29.Kd2 Nb6 <-1.15/18 18.h3> Na4 19.Nb3 Qxe4 20.Bd3 Qe3+ 21.Kb1 Qe8 22.Rhe1 Qc6 23.Be4 Qa6 24.Nxc5 Nc3+ 25.Qxc3 dxc3 26.Nxa6 |
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Kibitzing
sac: 28...Qxb4