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Anatoly Karpov vs Dragoljub Velimirovic
Skopje (1976), Skopje MKD, rd 4, Mar-??
King's Indian Defense: Saemisch Variation. Bronstein Defense (E87)  ·  1-0

ANALYSIS [x]

FEN COPIED

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Kibitzer's Corner
< Earlier Kibitzing  · PAGE 2 OF 2 ·  Later Kibitzing>
Aug-22-16  Howard: Still waiting for a response...
Aug-23-16
Premium Chessgames Member
  offramp: My guess is Morozevich.
Apr-05-18  Howard: We're still "waiting" for a response from Visayanbraindoctor.
Apr-05-18  twinlark: Carlsen, probably.
Apr-05-18  Everett: <Howard> maybe he moved on elsewhere since you refused to guess two years after he asked.

So, if he even cares anymore, he's still waiting for someone to guess.

Apr-05-18  Viktorerro: He might have gone through a hiatus lapse of braindeadness to resuscitate the query.
Apr-07-18  twinlark: What a pointlessly disrespectful comment.
Apr-07-18  WorstPlayerEver: Amazing game by Karpov.
Apr-14-18  visayanbraindoctor: <twinlark: What a pointlessly disrespectful comment.>

Yes Carlsen of course.

Don't worry about <Viktorerro>. If he were living in my area and I knew him, I would probably challenge him to a short match and beat his ass off. But this Filipino lives abroad, and I live in one of the poorest Philippine provinces serving the medical needs of indigent Filipinos all the time.

I hope you reopen your forum.

Apr-14-18  Muttley101: <visayanbraindoctor: Yes Carlsen of course.>

I got that you were referring to Carlsen.

To paraphase Kasparov: it won't be Viktor, and he won't be victor.

All the best.

Apr-14-18  morfishine: <visayanbraindoctor> The convoluted and confusing term or phrase "square grabbing prophylactic style" is not recognized as a credible, relevant chess description

This awkward and nonsensical phrase appears to be a co-mingling of two completely unrelated ideas in chess: (1) gaining space [to avoid a cramped position which is related to freeing one's game] & (2) making preventative moves or taking protective measures. Typically, prophylactic moves are made to secure one's position prior to undertaking an attack. However, these type of moves do not necessarily require or involve a gain of space.

The two concepts are unrelated

In any case, attacking chess players do not like to see their brilliant attacks undermined because they overlooked an opponent's resource. Karpov is brilliant at preparing his attacks

*****

Apr-14-18  jith1207: Not sure if the wait is over for <Howard>.
Apr-15-18  visayanbraindoctor: <Muttley101: <visayanbraindoctor: Yes Carlsen of course.>

I got that you were referring to Carlsen.>

Yes, they have some similarity in style, although of course no two players have exactly the same style. It occurs to me that post of mine was in 2014. It's now 2018, and I believe that Carlsen still plays in the same manner. It has gotten him success so he'll probably continue playing in this manner.

Apr-17-20  Everett: <morfishine: <visayanbraindoctor> The convoluted and confusing term or phrase "square grabbing prophylactic style" is not recognized as a credible, relevant chess description>

Sure it is.

Apr-17-20  Everett: The knights were made to look very clumsy and out of play while Karpov crashed through on the K-side.

Perhaps since computers have resuscitated many lines, this variation will show up at some point. I'd love to see it.

Apr-18-20  morfishine: <Everett> Thank you, but wouldn't 'positional' be a simpler and more well known term? I had never heard of the former before, that was my point, but I will stand corrected
Apr-18-20  Everett: <morfishine> thanks for your reply...

You're right, "positional" is more well-known, but I think <VBD> was going for something more precise.

In essence, tho, I don't agree completely with <VBD> on Karpov's style.

One could argue that Karpov, Petrosian, and, say, Adams, are all positional in nature. Yet Adams is likely the most appreciative of the initiative (King's pawn play, Marshall-Ruy) out of the three, and Petrosian by far the most prophylactic (closed centers, slower play on the wings, etc.)

All these words leave a bit to be desired, of course.

After studying Karpov for some time, it seemed to me that he was actually quite risky in a particular way.

Karpov's eventual consistent switch to the d-pawn openings as White and adoption of the Zaitsev-Ruy as Black, seemed to be a perfect match for his sensibilities. Karpov at base seemed to be a Q-side positional (square grabbing, gaining and solidifying space) attacker, and was often willing to cede the initiative (temporary, in his eyes) in order to achieve his positional gains. Extremely efficient defensive skill is a must for his style. One has to have a particular mind-set to say "I will sacrifice the initiative for long-term positional gains, and I will survive all the heat you can bring."

Karpov's Ruy and Nimzo/QID all involved early k-side castling and ambitious q-side expansion.

Kasparov was the only one who consistently set a pre-1997 Karpov problems on the K-side, and punished Karpov for not respecting the initiative on that side of the board.

Petrosian did this too, somewhat, yet with different emphasis. Petrosian seemed to liked closed, stable centers and play on the wings as Black. This explains his love of the French and his mastery of some unique lines in the Ruy that Marin studied a bit.

Carlsen is something somewhat different in my eyes. Carlsen's opening play is straight out of Bronstein's world, yet his middlegame is the best of Spassky: comfortable in any position, whole-board play, tactically bright, and amazingly flexible.

<VBD> on this thread or elsewhere talks about Carlsen as a crocodile (Carlsen himself has mentioned having an affinity, as well) dragging this opponents into a swamp. In this way, he is like Petrosian.

Just an aside, is it just me who has noticed just how many pawns remain so late in Petrosian's games? If there was an award for the highest value of "pawn persistence" in any great players game, Petrosian must be up there.

The endgame is all Carlsen's own, though. He's one of the best ever.

Apr-19-20  saturn2: Suetin says 19...Rad8 was a mistake and prefers 19...Rae8 so that black can double the rooks on the f file later.
Apr-19-20  morfishine: <Everett> Thank you for your thorough and very interesting post! This brings understanding to me and is much appreciated

I think Yusupov was quoted some years ago the difficulty of engaging Karpov's prophylactic style, or something like that, so this all makes sense now

I stand corrected by your wonderful post!

Apr-19-20
Premium Chessgames Member
  moronovich: <Just an aside, is it just me who has noticed just how many pawns remain so late in Petrosian's games? If there was an award for the highest value of "pawn persistence" in any great players game, Petrosian must be up there.>

For some reason it is called a "Pawn Shop".Not a Bishop Shop" or a "Horse Shop".Them they called Churches or Bars.

Apr-20-20  Everett: <Morfishine> thank you!

One more thing about each of the three players I mentioned:

Adams seems much more forward and clear in his play, at his best. It's remarkable to me how quickly he gets his rooks to open files. I don't know how he did it consistently for so long.

Petrosian like to slow the game down, and play what I like to call "sticky" chess. The pieces seem to be a bit in the mud in his games at times. And his ability to create positions that inhibit rooks and showcase the minor pieces is pretty amazing.

Karpov may seem so difficult because he also liked to mark time and tidy up his position. Maybe the top players found it difficult handling Karpov's relative indifference to the initiative. Spassky said he couldn't understand what Karpov wanted at the board. It seems Karpov's ability to patiently build his position was relatively new to the chess world. His patience is likely his most remarkable quality.

Apr-20-20  morfishine: <Everett> You are very welcome, Adams has been one of my favorite players over time

Feel free to stop over at my forum if you like

Jul-06-20  Howard: If I remember correctly, Gligoric gave Karpov’s 14.Ke2 an exclamation point in a 1976 issue of CL&R, but Stockfish evaluates 14.Qf2 as being much better.
Jul-06-20  C. Auguste Dupin: Much of this discussion on the finer nuances and subtle differences between the styles of players, who, speaking generally, are boxed in this one category of positional players, has also to do with who inspired and caught the admiration of these players in their formative years ( which usually decide the style of a player). Both Karpov and Petrosian seem to draw lessons in their play from the games of Capablanca and Nimzowitsch. However, Karpov seems to be tilted more towards Capablanca's style, clear conceptualisation of the strategic goals to be reached, maximizing piece efficiency by subtle maneuvers, precise calculation and endgame play. Petrosian, on the other hand, was the " deep and crooked" positional player in the style of Aron Nimzowitsch, completely engrossed in tactical possibilities of the opponent and their prevention, trying to really squeeze out mistakes out of frustration. In a way, Karpov is the one who can be called the true positional player, Petrosian was , as Kramnik said, a rather mysterious player.
Oct-07-20  fisayo123: 22. Nf5!! Tour de force, Karpov!
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