< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 1 OF 2 ·
|Nov-04-03|| ||tud: Ughaibu, take this one. It's a really wild one, some mistakes but Tal is there, in his element. |
|Nov-04-03|| ||Kenkaku: Very nice game. The finish is 41. Kb5 (41. Kb4) Rxb2+ winning the queen, though I think Tal had it won if he simply traded off, up the exchange, as well. |
|Nov-04-03|| ||zhentil: Your last comment is dodgy, Kenkaku. Why pass up a queen vs. knight ending for a rook vs. knight ending where the weak b and d-pawns allow white drawing chances? |
|Nov-04-03|| ||AgentRgent: I may be wrong, but I believe I've spotted a missed win for White with 24. Nf2! |
24. Nf2 Nf3+ 25. Kd1 Nxh2 (what else?) 26. Nxh3 (The bishop was the key to Blacks entire attack, without it his threats fade away) Nxf1 27. Qc8+ Rf8 28. Qe6+ Kh8 (if 28...Rf7 29. Rc8+ Bf8 30. Qg4+ ) 29. Rc8 Ng3 30. Rxf8+ Bxf8 31. Nxf4 (the Knight is immune due to 31...exf4 32. Bc3+ Bg7 33. Qc8#)
Black still has some play but Whites Material advantage holds, then wins. Anyone see anything better for black?
|Nov-04-03|| ||Kenkaku: <zhentil> I never said Tal should do that, I just said I think he would've still won the ending if he had traded off. Obviously making a much weaker move to go into a relatively even (and likely to be long) endgame is insanity. |
|Nov-04-03|| ||Brian Watson: Agent, in your line, i think 25..Nd4 is more active, gaining a tempo and pinning the knight against the e2 square. One possibility:|
24.Nf2 Nf3+ 25.Kd1 Nd4 26.Qc3 (to meet 26..Qxh2 w/ Qxh3) f3 27.Bd3 Qxh2 (threatening to win the exchange and the knight) 28.Nxh3 Qe2+ 29.Bxe2 fxe2+ 30.Ke1 Rxf1#
|Nov-05-03|| ||Calli: <Brian> 28.Nxh3? in that line is bad. 28.Be3 looks better. |
|Nov-05-03|| ||ughaibu: Tud: Thanks for posting this one. Looking at the opening I was surprised to see such conventional play by Tal then suddenly there's Bh3 and Ne4, great stuff (I'll have to explore the "games like this"). In Brian Watson's line is 26.....Ne2 27.Qh3 f3 any fun? |
|Nov-05-03|| ||AgentRgent: <Brian> I had barely considered 25...Nd4 but it looks like a good try. <Calli> I agree. 28. Be3. Perhaps it would go something like this: 24. Nf2! Nf3+ 25. Kd1 Nd4!? 26. Qc3 f3 27. Bd3 Qxh2 28. Be3 Bxf1 29. Bxf1 Qg1 30. Qe1 and it looks like white should still be able to weather the storm and make his material decisive. |
|Nov-05-03|| ||AgentRgent: <Ughaibu: 26.....Ne2 27.Qh3 f3> 28. Rc8+ Rf8 29. Rxf8+ Kxf8 30. Qxg2 fxg2 29. Kxe2 gxf1=Q+ Kxf1 and White is 2 knights to the good... |
|Nov-05-03|| ||ughaibu: AgentRgent: 28.....Bf8 was what I was thinking, I'll take a look on the movable player. |
|Nov-05-03|| ||ughaibu: Okay that's no good cause of the queen exchange on g4. How about 25....Nd4 26.Qc3 f3 27.Bd3 Ne2 28.Be2 e2 29.Ke2 Bg4 30.Ke1 Rf3? |
|Nov-05-03|| ||AgentRgent: <Ughaibu: 24. Nf2 Nf3+ 25. Kd1 Nd4 26. Qc3 f3 27. Bd3 Ne2 28. Bxe2 fxe2+ 29. Kxe2 Bg4+ 30. Ke1 Rf3> 31. Qc4 Bf6 (planning Bh4, is there better?) 32. Nxg4!? Bh4+ 33. Nf2 Bxf2+ 34. Kd1 Bc5 (to prevent Rc8+) 35. Rxf3 Qxf3+ 36. Qe2 and again I think white holds on to win. |
|Nov-05-03|| ||ughaibu: AgentRgent:: Going back to your original line with 25.....Nh2, instead of 26.....Nf1 how about f3? |
|Nov-05-03|| ||AgentRgent: <Ughaibu: 24. Nf2 Nf3+ 25. Kd1 Nxh2 26.
Nxh3 f3> It's an interesting try, but Black has invested so much material that White can readily give some back to relieve the pressure. 27. Rf2!? fxe2+ 28. Rxe2 Qf1+ (28...Qxh3 30. Qc8+ ) 29. Be1 Nf3 30. Qc8+ Rf8 (30...Bf8 31. Rc7! Nd4 32. Qg4+ ) 31. Qe6+ Kh8
32. Rc7 Nd4 33. Qg4! |
|Nov-05-03|| ||Brian Watson: Humph! and i thought my anaylsis was so clever. Missed 28.Be3.|
AgentR, in your rebuttal you have 29..Qg1. Does 29..Bh6 instead work? I'm finding this hard to do in my head, but i'm thinking both 30.Bxh6 Qxf2 and 30.Bxd4 Bxc1 are better for black.
|Nov-05-03|| ||Brian Watson: by the way,is there some kind of incantation to invoke an analysis by Crafty? |
|Nov-06-03|| ||DWINS: Brian, 29...Bh6 doesn't work because of 30.Ng4 |
|Nov-06-03|| ||ughaibu: It would be strange if Larsen hadn't considered Nf2 as, apart from reserving the option on the bishop, it protects e4 which is a key point in white's position. Doesn't Tal examine this game in any of his books? |
|Nov-06-03|| ||Benzol: Tal doesn't say anything about this game in 'Life and Games of Mikhail Tal' but the game is annotated in 'Tal's 100 Best Games' by B.Cafferty. The line given is 24.Nf2 Nf3+; 25.Kd1 Nd4; 26.Qc3 and wins.
It's interesting that Tal played this line again later in the Soviet Championship in 1969.|
See Averkin vs Tal, 1969
|Nov-06-03|| ||AgentRgent: Amazing, but it appears that Bent missed the win. In his defense, it was a pretty fierce attack, and it was Tal after all so it's easy to understand the pressure. I am pleased however because Nf2 was my first inclination in the position. Good to see my instincts are sometimes correct.. then again, I wasn't staring across to board at the Magician of Riga either... ;-) |
|Nov-06-03|| ||tud: How about 24Nf2 f3 25 Bd3 Qh2. Opens any doors ? |
|Nov-06-03|| ||AgentRgent: <Tud: How about 24 Nf2 f3 25 Bd3 Qh2. Opens any doors ?> I don't think so: 24. Nf2 f3 25. Bd3 Qxh2 26.
Nxh3 (again killing the Bishop is key) Qxh3 27. Qc8+ Qxc8 28. Rxc8+ White has a Rook and a Bishop for 2 pawns and Black has run out of threats. |
|Nov-06-03|| ||MoonlitKnight: And who said that Bent Larsen was the strongest player in the world in 1969? |
|Nov-06-03|| ||Brian Watson: my suggestion 29..Bh6?? (in the line in question) fails to 30.Bxh6 Qxf2?? 31.Qc8+. This is what happens when you mix crack with chess. Let that be a lesson to the kids out there. |
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