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Jul-04-08
 | | playground player:  I voted for g4. I simply do not like reacting passively to Black's attack on a c2 pawn that doesn't look like it will lead to much. Let them react to us. |
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| Jul-04-08 | | acirce: <hoodrobin> Yep. It seems to me that the only question is whether to insert 22.g4. Is there any good argument for Qd1, Qc1, Qb1 or Bd1 ? |
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Jul-04-08
 | | OhioChessFan: <I voted for g4. I simply do not like reacting passively to Black's attack on a c2 pawn that doesn't look like it will lead to much. Let them react to us.> I have sat through a couple weeks of that feeling. They have certainly been dictating play. I see Ra2 as something like exchanging a piece when cramped. g4 looks okay, but we may want to play g3 sometime instead. Let's let them think a move to see if they'll leave the Knight where it is. |
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| Jul-04-08 | | offtherook: <g4> looks intriguing. I'll post some possible lines later. Those voting <Rc1>: Why? They just reply 22...Bd7 and we have to move the rook back to a1. Unless you're hoping for us to play a "GM draw" by triple rep, that move makes no sense. Also, they might play ...Ree7 followed by ...Be8, costing us the tempo as our rook moves back to defend the a-pawn while also transferring the bishop to the kingside. |
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| Jul-04-08 | | offtherook: On a practical note: as has been mentioned, Black is dictating play right now. They are expecting <Ra2> which is probably the most sensible move. That gives them the next 4 days to continue analyzing and developing their plan. The zwischenzug <g4> throws their analysis into disarray and returns the initiative to us. |
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| Jul-04-08 | | Eyal:  <MarkThornton: bluewave: <A) [22.Ra2 Nf7 23.Rf2 N7d6 24.Re2 Qb6 25.Nf2 Rge7 26.g4] 26...Nh4 27.Bh1 (27.Bxd5? exd5 28.Rxe7 Nf3+!) the knight has no escape square>I think we may have time to manufacture one, due to the idea of <27...h5>, when we have: A) <28. Nd1> hxg4 29. Qxh4 Qb1 winning material.> 29.Rb2 wins for White.
<(I'm not sure about the move order here: 28...Qb1 29. Rb2 Qa1 is also attractive.)> 30.Rb4 Bxc2 (or any other move with the bishop) 31.Ne3 Qxe1+ 32.Bxe1 and our knight on h4 is trapped. |
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| Jul-04-08 | | The Chess Express: Well, I'm on my lunch break, so I only have a few minutes, but my first impression is Rc1. <acirce: Ra2 makes the most sense to me, intuitively, now or after g4. Rc1 seems awfully passive; from a2 it can at least go to b2.offtherook: g4 looks intriguing. I'll post some possible lines later. Those voting Rc1: Why?> Two points:
<1.> Our ♖ is better on b1 than b2. Why play Ra2 ... Rb2 ... Rb1 when Rc1 ... Rb1 takes less time? <2.> 22. Rc1 Bd7 23. Nf2 is fine for us. 23. Qxa3? 24. Ra1 Qb2 25. Rxa7 or the immediate Ng4 look better for us. Our ♖ looks better to me on c1 that a2. I'm also considering Qc1. I'll take a deeper look at this tonight. |
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| Jul-04-08 | | hoodrobin: <acirce: the only question is whether to insert 22.g4>. I think they'd prefer to leave a N in the good f5 square, occupying d6 with the other N: then g4 could be more effective, IMO. |
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| Jul-04-08 | | offtherook: <Our ♖ is better on b1 than b2. Why play Ra2 ... Rb2 ... Rb1 when Rc1 ... Rb1 takes less time?>
Why is our rook going to b1? |
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| Jul-04-08 | | The Chess Express: I don't like g4 as much while our ♘ still has the possibility of going to g4, but I'll take a look at it also. |
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| Jul-04-08 | | The Chess Express: <offtherook: Why is our rook going to b1?> Where else can it go after Ra2 ... Rb2 ? |
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| Jul-04-08 | | offtherook: <Where else can it go after Ra2 ... Rb2 ?> Why did it go to b2? |
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| Jul-04-08 | | hms123: <g4> then <Qc1> then perhaps <Re1> and I like the looks of our position better. the rook holds back the black e-pawn and the WQ and B form a battery aimed toward the K-side. |
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Jul-04-08
 | | Gypsy: On the balance of things, I like our <Nd8> right where it is. Supported by a minor piece, our Pe6 is a granitic pawn, despite of it looking so week. The key is that only White Q and R can readily attack it. Our Nd8 is also mostly out of the way of our play and I would not give it a different function unless our Ba4 can come back first. I think the d6 square ought to be kept free for our Ng5. The main drawback of Nd8 is that we do not the d8 for our queen transfera. Fortunately, our queen can use different path(s) (eg, Qa5-c7-f7(e7)-f6), spending only one extra move. At this point, I am kind of hoping that White will play g4 in the next few moves, and that we can thus start thinking about playing for an initiative and even for a win. In the mean time, I think that rearrangements like Kg8-h7, Qa5-c7-... and a general buildup of our heavy bateries on the K-side looks like a fine way to go. |
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| Jul-04-08 | | karnak64: <granitic>. I love it! |
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Jul-04-08
 | | kwgurge: Ra2 is quite often played in this line of the French and it is best here, so my vote is <22.Ra2>. |
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Jul-04-08
| | kwgurge: Rc1 is a horrible move. Why put the rook on a file behind two of its own pawns? Why take the rook away from also defending the a-pawn? The black knight is just about as strong on d6 as it is on f5. Why chase it there now with g4 when it will be on an almost as good square, we'll still need to defend the c2 pawn next move, and we'll weaken our kingside one move earlier than necessary since we can't immediately follow up with kingside action. It makes more sense to defend the c-pawn first and then follow up with sustained kingside action. After 22.Ra2, everything on our side is safely defended, black's central pawn break is still locked, and then we can begin offensive action. Defend and lock queenside and center then attack on kingside - classic, thematic chess. |
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Jul-04-08
| | kwgurge: < hms123: <g4> then <Qc1> then perhaps <Re1> and I like the looks of our position better. the rook holds back the black e-pawn and the WQ and B form a battery aimed toward the K-side. > I think the queen may be better placed on e1 for now with better access to the kingside and overprotection of the e5 pawn break. Besides having just moved it to e1, we would effectively be losing a tempo by moving her to c1 within three moves. |
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Jul-04-08
| | kwgurge: I'm even thinking that after 22.Ra2 and most expectable black replies, 23.Kh1 may be the final necessary prepatory before g4 and an attack on the kingside. If black doesn't connect their rooks, then the ability to play f5 after g4 requires the king to be off the g file |
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| Jul-04-08 | | hms123: <kwg> It is clear that we need to get <Kh1> at some point soon. If you think that <Ra2> and then <Kh1> makes sense, I will certainly take that very seriously. |
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| Jul-04-08 | | hoodrobin: Please don't vote (definitively) too early. <TCE> reasons about Rc1 look interesting. We lean towards the kingside and defend c2. For example: 22.Rc1 Bc6 23.Nf2 Nh4 24.Ng4 Nxf3 25.Rxf3 h5 26.Nf6  ; or: 23...b5 24.Ra1  . |
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| Jul-04-08 | | whiteshark: I wouldn't have played 21...Ba4. I think it's misplaced there as in the long run the action is in the center and on the kingside. It's 22.Ra2 for me. |
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Jul-04-08
| | kwgurge: <hms123> Yeah, I think it's worth a good look. After g4, I'd want to be able to play an early f5 to bust things up in front of the black king while we have more pieces on that side. I don't see how black can stop our break after taking the time for Kh1. If they play h5, they let our knight back to a stronger g5 and we can still play h3, g4. |
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| Jul-04-08 | | hoodrobin: The point perhaps is that black play, on alternate sides, has failed to be really strong on either side. |
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Jul-04-08
| | kwgurge: <hoodrobin: Please don't vote (definitively) too early. <TCE> reasons about Rc1 look interesting. We lean towards the kingside and defend c2. For example: 22.Rc1 Bc6 23.Nf2 Nh4 24.Ng4 Nxf3 25.Rxf3 h5 26.Nf6 ; or: 23...b5 24.Ra1 .> No offense intended, but how the heck does a rook "lean" toward the kingside on c1 behind two pawns and with two other pieces on the first rank between it and the kingside?
Additionally, why would black play 22...Bc6?
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