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|Sep-20-08|| ||Alphastar: The only thing I got right was the opening - I was 100% sure this was a caro-kann.|
|Sep-20-08|| ||realbrob: Ok, currently looking at 17..Rc8. The immediate threat is to win the knight win ..Rxc3. Moreover this move puts some additional pressure on the weak square c2 (already attacked by the LSB).|
Now. White of course can't move the N because it's mate, and can't defend the 'a' pawn with another piece. It's pointless to defend the knight with a piece which wouldn't cover a2, and the king has nowhere to escape. AND White doesn't have any immediate, devastating attacks.
So the only good idea here is 18.a3 and now if 18..Rxc3? 19.bxc3 it looks like White's position can hold (some examples, 19..Qxa3 20.cxb4 and the White queen can regain a useful position, 19..Bxc2+ 20.Rxc2 Nxc2 21.Kxc2 no problem).
But Black of course can play something better than 18..Rxc3? And it's 18..Nxc2! 19.Rxc2. Now at first I was looking at 19..Bxa3 but probably that's wrong because afterwards Black can't win back the piece. So I think the line must be
19..Rxc3 20.bxc3 Qxc3 21.Qc1 (White needs to cover a3, 21.Rc1?? Bxa3, and good night, everybody) 21..Qb3+ 22.Ka1 Bxc2 23.Qb2 Qxb2 (I don't see any good alternatives). 24.Kxb2 Black has to move the bishop so he can't capture the White bishop.
Now, Black is up a pawn AND has a passed pawn on d5. I don't know if it's enough to say the job is done.
Well, it looks like it was – for a GM that's more than enough to win..
|Sep-20-08|| ||chrisowen: It was a plan of Rc8 and Nxc2 that did white. This is not a good line: more often 10.Nb5 resembling a superior french is played at the highest level e.g. Grischuk vs Asrian (god rest his soul) 2006 and Najer vs Dreev 2006. 16.Rh3 is considerably stronger than Kb1.|
|Sep-20-08|| ||zb2cr: <zooter>,
You asked, "In the game line, what happens after 21.Qb2?"
21. ... Bxc2+. White must play 22. Ka1, since 22. Kc1 loses the Queen to 22. ... Bxa3. After 22. Ka1, Qxa3+ Black is up by a pair of connected passed Pawns.
|Sep-20-08|| ||jhoro: I liked <17...Rc8> right away and didn't look for other moves (don't enjoy spending long time pondering at problems). I thought 18.a3 was the best response, which was played, but after that I deviated with <18... Rc4> to be followed probably by <19...Nc6>. at this point things were getting out of hand in terms of complexity and had to look at the game and computer. this line has a punch according to free Rybka
<17...Rc8 18.a3 Rc4 19.Qf3 Nb6>|
|Sep-20-08|| ||patzer2: Today's Saturday puzzle solution, 17...Rc8!!, initiates a decisive demolition of pawn structure combination after 18. a3 Nxc2! 19. Rxc2 Rxc3! 20. bxc3 Qxc3 .|
The idea behind the combination is that if Black can snare White's b and c pawns, and otherwise keep the piece material even, then his potential passed b and c pawns will prove decisive in the endgame.
The chance to mess up White's King-side pawn structure with the follow-up 24...Bg6! and 25...Bxh5 is an added bonus which helps insure the win.
The tactics actually played, as well as those threatened, are interesting and varied, involving the demolition of pawn structure, deflection (i.e. removing the guard or defender), pinning, Knight Fork, double attack, and passed pawn tactics.
In addition to Black's first four moves in the combination, two key follow-up moves are 21. Qb3+! (not 21. Bxh3?? 22. Ka2! Bxc2 23. Qxa3 Qxe5 24. Qc5 ) and 24...Bg6! (better than 24...Bd3 25. Be3 when Black probably wins but with more difficulty).
|Sep-20-08|| ||TrueBlue: love the game. Lesson to be learned: big o-o-o is a no-no unless you know what you are doing, which white didn't. Super exposed white king was punished!|
|Sep-20-08|| ||zatara: <AnotherNN: Why not 21. ..Bxa3?>surprisingly 21...Bxa3 is loosing because of the brilliant 22.Ka2|
|Sep-20-08|| ||jhoro: in my Rc4 line white has more playable options on move 19|
<17...Rc8 18.a3 Rc4 19.axb4 Bxb4>
<17...Rc8 18.a3 Rc4 19.Qd2 Nc6>
all of which make my head heart. i'd never be able to play these lines without blundering big time... i like 18...Nxc2 better now as it is more forcing
|Sep-20-08|| ||patzer2: The first 15 moves of this game were later followed in M Chapman vs I Rogers, 1999, when White tried to vary with 16. Rhe1 but was still lost after 16...Nb4 17. a3 Rc8!! |
|Sep-20-08|| ||Woody Wood Pusher: I got 17..Rc8 18.a3,Nxc2 19 Rxc2,Rxc3 20.bxc3,Qxc3 and saw however black defended the rook, in this case 21.Qc1, black could pick it up with 21...Qb3+ 22.Ka1,Bxc2 destroying the white queenside and leaving black a good endgame advantage with good passed pawns.|
I did not see as far as 24..Bg6! which I think is probably the key move seeing as it is a Saturday, so only half points this week!
The position after move 30 is about -2.5 but I don't see why white didn't play on just a little more, there was still a chance black might make a mistake and he is 'only' 2 pawns up.
|Sep-20-08|| ||patzer2: For an interesting game in this opening with the improvement 10. Nb5, as suggested by <chrisowen>, see Carlsen vs Bareev, 2005, where Carlsen missed a win and got brilliantly swindled on his 43rd move.|
|Sep-20-08|| ||kirchhoff: I decided that if I were playing this game I would play 17..Rc8 since it poses a threat and is developmental, but I rejected it as a solution to the puzzle because I could not find a path to significant material gain or mate. I'm looking forward to next Tuesday and Wednesday's puzzles.|
|Sep-20-08|| ||kevin86: No idea on this one. The last thing i was looking for was a subtle move as was Rc8.|
|Sep-20-08|| ||bakuazer: i got it(first 6 moves) and saw to what it leads.
The first move is the only one. Then it takes some time to analyze, 20....Qxc3 is important.
I also thought on ..Bxa3 and I found Ka2 against it, I believe this refutes Bxa3.
|Sep-20-08|| ||playground player: It's amazing what a little misinformation can do. A friend of mine--a recent tournament winner, so not exactly a lightweight--specializes in the Caro-Kann: because, he says, "Botvinnik played the Caro-Kann against Tal in their championship match, and won every time he played it." My friend wins a lot of games with the Caro-Kann--but Botvinnik actually lost half the games in which he played it against Tal: wins, draws, and losses were evenly distributed.|
|Sep-20-08|| ||Marmot PFL: I didn't work out too many variations here, but 17...Rc8 was the only move that seemed worth considering. On move 21 I expected Bxa3 but missed Ka2 for white.|
|Sep-20-08|| ||agb2002: The white king's position looks weak.
A) 17... gxh6 18.Nf6+ Kd8 19.Nxh7 seems to trade an attacking bishop for a more or less cornered bishop.
B) 17... Rc8 18.a3
B.1) 18... Rxc3 19.bxc3 Qxa3 20.cxb4 Bxb4 21.Rh3 looks bad for black.
B.2) 18... Nxc2 19.Rxc2 Rxc3 20.bxc3 Qxc3 21.Rhc1 Bxa3 looks promising.
C) 17... d4 18.Qxd4 is not clear.
I'd try line B.2). Let's see.
|Sep-20-08|| ||whiteshark: I was not in the right ballpark. :(|
|Sep-20-08|| ||agb2002: I saw 21.Qc1 (instead of 21.Rhc1) but rejected it because I thought 21... Bxa3 was crushing. Actually, 21... Bxa3 is bad in both lines because of 22.Ka2 unpinning the rook and threatening the bishop. I should have been more careful...|
|Sep-20-08|| ||e.karaokcu: why not 17 Rc8 a3 18.Rxc3 axb4 19.Bxb4 Bxg7 Rc4 20.Qg5 Bb3 21.Nf6+ Kd8 22.Qg5 variation?.BLACK WÝLL WÝN ÝN THÝS VARÝATÝON.TRY THÝS AND SEE|
|Sep-20-08|| ||karnak64: My: that's a lot of work for a pawn.|
|Sep-20-08|| ||DarthStapler: I got the first move|
|Sep-20-08|| ||Longbrow: I have read < patzer2> and <chrisowen>’s excellent posts below and acknowledge Chapman vs I Rogers, 1999 ,as well as, Carlsen vs Bareev, 2005 .|
This is the Caro-Kann Defense French variation, right?
I don’t quite follow 5. g4.
By 7. h4 ,white practically committed himself to castling queen side, losing additional time with 16. Kb1 and 17. Rc1
Black is able to maintain an effective light colored Bishop in support of a Queen Side attack after the eighth move. Is g4 a common response for white in this opening?
|Sep-20-08|| ||johnlspouge: Saturday (Very Difficult): A David vs G Kallai, 1996 (17…?)|
Black to play and win.
Material: B for N+P. The White Kb1 has 1 legal move. The Black Bh7 pins Pc2 to Kb1, and the Black Qa5 and Nb4 burden Nc3 with preventing mate at a2. The Black Pg7 threatens Bh6, but Nh5 can recover the B by forking Ke8, Bh7, and Rg8 from f6. The situation on the Black K-side is tense, and White can reinforce the attack with the move Qg5. Black has several inactive pieces: Ra8, Rg8, and Bf8. No candidate springs to the eye, so a methodical enumeration of checks, captures, and threats follows.
Candidates (17…): Qxa2+, Bxc2+, gxh6, Nxc2, Rc8
17…Rc8 (threatening 18…Rxc3 19…Qxa2#)
Counterattack on the K-side (e.g., 18.Qg5) is too slow. Further defense of Pa2 is impossible. The Kb1 cannot flee:
(1) 18.Rcd1 Bxc2+ wins R+P
(2) 18.Rc other Bxc2+ 19.Ka1 [Kc1 Nd6+] Rxc3 (threatening 20…Qxa2#)
20.a3 Rxa3+ 21.bxa3 Qxa3#
Thus, counterattack on the Q-side is the only feasible option.
Candidates (18…): Nxc2, Rxc3, Bxc2+, Qxa3
18…Nxc2 (threatening 19…Nxa3+)
19.Rxc2 [else, drop at least 2Ps under unfavorable circumstances]
19…Rxc3 (threatening 20…Rxc2)
20.bxc3 Qxc3 (threatening 21…Qxc2+, 21…Bxc2+, or 21…Qb3+ 22…Bxc2+)
White must protect Rc2 again, because White cannot afford to lose Rc2 without compensation.
21.Qa4+ [Qc1 Qb3+ 22.Qb2 Bxc2+] b5 22.Kc1 (intending 22…bxa4 23.Rxc3)
22…Bxa3+ 23.Kd1 [Kb1 Qb2#] Qf3+
Because Qf3 forks Rh1, White loses Qa4 outright, even after Rc8+.
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