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Vladimir Kramnik vs Viswanathan Anand
Anand - Kramnik World Championship Match (2008), Bonn GER, rd 8, Oct-23
Queen's Gambit Declined: Vienna Variation (D39)  ·  1/2-1/2

ANALYSIS [x]

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Kibitzer's Corner
< Earlier Kibitzing  · PAGE 32 OF 34 ·  Later Kibitzing>
Oct-24-08  DEEPERGRAY: Drawnik has to win three of Four just to get to the blitz round against a superior blitz player

A miracle win for Drawnik tommorrow would add some excitement to the match. This is what I suggest for drawnik (who deserves to lose for his drawnik ways ) Anyway he needs to call his eligitmate father Kasparov beg for forgiveness and get some mental coaching and some prep work suggestions and\or send Anand a computer virus

If he does both of these he should be fine - Oh yeah I almost forgot get the lead out of his arse, find his manhood and play for a win

Oct-24-08  SetNoEscapeOn: <madlydeeply: You are optimistic, Eggman! His career is not over but the WC part of it is i predict. Carlsen's arrived!>

That's something on the horizon that looks like it might be destiny: Anand-Carlsen 2010. Anand-Aronian or Anand-Ivanchuk would also be incredible. And of course, before that we may see Anand- Topalov, although I don't see any reason why Anand should play Topalov unless they tell him that if he loses, he gets a match with the 2010 challenger.

Oct-24-08  Woody Wood Pusher: <Oh yeah I almost forgot get the lead out of his arse, find his manhood and play for a win>

LOL

Oct-24-08  JG27Pyth: <Actually there are no draw odds in this match, so Anand has to reach 6.5 points.> Oh... No draw odds for the champ? Has that been done before? Quite a few Championship matches in the past were drawn (Lasker vs Schlecter -- Botvinnik vs. Bronstein and another one I think) with the champion retaining the title. Is this no-draw-odds thing our way of telling Anand that when everyone said that his World Championship tourney title didn't mean crap they were serious ;)!?
Oct-24-08
Premium Chessgames Member
  maxi: Common guys, show respect for a great master like Kramnik. That being said, it is clear Vlad is going thru some serious crisis, who knows why.
Oct-24-08  JG27Pyth: <That's something on the horizon that looks like it might be destiny: Anand-Carlsen 2010. Anand-Aronian or Anand-Ivanchuk would also be incredible. And of course, before that we may see Anand- Topalov, although I don't see any reason why Anand should play Topalov unless they tell him that if he loses, he gets a match with the 2010 challenger.>

Here's some news for you: Kamsky is going to surprise some people... first on the list is Topalov. Kamsky Topalov is going to be a great match.

Oct-24-08  SetNoEscapeOn: <JG27Pyth>

Nothing would please me better if Kamsky won (if the match takes place in the first place, which it shouldn't).

Oct-24-08
Premium Chessgames Member
  Eggman: <<You are optimistic, Eggman! His career is not over but the WC part of it is I predict. Carlsen's arrived!>>

Kramnik is only the same age that Karpov was for the first K-K match, and look at how long Karpov contended after that time. And as for this match, I quote Yogi Bera: it ain't over 'til it's over.

Oct-24-08
Premium Chessgames Member
  Eggman: <<Nothing would please me better if Kamsky won (if the match takes place in the first place, which it shouldn't).>>

It "shouldn't" as in it probably won't, or it "shouldn't" in the ethical sense?

And what's all this about Anand-Carlsen (or Aronian or Ivanchuk) for 2010? Is there some kind of qualifying event scheduled?

Oct-24-08  Ulhumbrus: There may have been alternatives which would have given Kramnik an advantage, but Kramnik's problem was that at this stage of the match an advantage wasn't enough. He wanted to win. He tried to win, but his choices didn't succeed.
Oct-24-08  SetNoEscapeOn: <Eggman: <<Nothing would please me better if Kamsky won (if the match takes place in the first place, which it shouldn't).>> It "shouldn't" as in it probably won't, or it "shouldn't" in the ethical sense?>

Probably both.

I guess I'm not sure when the cycle ends, but yes- there is a cycle going on right now that includes the Grand Prix events and the next world cup, two tournaments have been played already.

Oct-24-08  Eyal: From the Press Conference:

<Kramnik: This was the first time I had a slight advantage, so it was quite pleasant. Anand's 10...Bxb5 was an interesting novelty (or at least a novelty to him). 11.Nb3 was the principled move but he didn't like it. He got nothing special in the game, and it was equal after 12...Nc6. 14...Rd8 would have been equal, but after 14...Rg8 White was better, and after 19.Re1 Black's position was dangerous. White has at his disposal the e5 and f5 breaks, for example, but Anand found a few accurate defensive moves - 19...a6, 20...Kf8 and 21...Rg6. His 22.g3 was slow and not in the spirit of the position, but he couldn't find a way to attack. Black's Qd4 + Rd3 construction was shaky, but it also interfered with White's coordination, and then all Black needed was to get the other rook into play and then he's OK. That said, he thought that 26...Qc5 was better than 26...Rd8, as the former would not allow Qh5. In the final sequence, he wanted to bring his pawn or king to h6, but never found a way to make it work - he's never in time - so he took the perpetual.

Anand: After 14...Rg8 15.f4 he knew he had done something wrong, and then had to choose between various setups where he's worse. He thought bringing the king to the queenside would be too slow, and felt that 19...a6 was forced. 20.Nd5 was very interesting and dangerous, but because only major pieces would be left maybe he can survive. White was better the whole game. Anand was happy when he found 21...Rg6, noting that if 22.f5 exf5 23.exf5 Rg4 Black would be in fine shape. He discussed various attempts to exploit the Qd4/Rd3 construction, including in positions where White's rook is on e1. So (my particular move reference, not his) 21.Na2 Qd8 22.Nc1 Rd7 and White hasn't made progress, because to achieve anything positive he'll need the knight back on c3. So Black's position was worse but defensible, and the last accurate move was 32...f5, after which it's a draw.

Q & A:

A couple of people asked Kramnik about playing on at the end with Kh3 with the idea of Rg2. Kramnik replied that it was an option but that he'd probably lose. (The second time, understandably growing tired of suffering fools, said approximately "my situation in the match is not so good but not to lose like an idiot". Having vented, he let the questioner save face, adding that he understood the question and had of course considered the ideas.) Specifically, he tossed off the following lines: 39.Kh3 Rd3 and tehn Black's king runs out, shedding the h-pawn but gaining big counterplay. Or Black can defend with ...Qc5-e7. Also, if instead 39.h4 Rd3 40.Rf2 Qc5 and ...Qe7, or 40...Kf8-e7 with counterplay for the pawn. Or at the end, in response to the suggested 40.Kh3 Rd3 41.Qg5+ Kg8 42.Rg2 Qc5 43.Kh4 Qe7 44.Kg5, Kramnik noted 43...Ne7 instead "and maybe White will get mated". (Around here came the "lose like an idiot" remark.)

A substantive question for Anand was to explain why he chose the Rd3 + Qd4 plan. His reply was illuminating: I felt the position was worse but manageable. I need activity because the structural threat of f5 is so strong, and at some point you have to pick some plan and stick with it.> (http://chessmind.powerblogs.com/)

Oct-24-08  Eyal: Position after 21...Rg6:


click for larger view

This was an interesting moment in the game, since Kramnik seemed to be preparing the f5 advance, and Anand's last move is positively baiting him to play this; it doesn't seem to work. Apparently, Anand mentioned in the press conference the line 22.f5 exf5 23.exf5 Rg4 in which Black should be fine. Two other options were:

23.Rxf5 Rd2 and White's position is falling apart: 24.Qf3 Ne5 25.Qh3 Rdxg2 26.Qxg2 Rxg2 27.Kxg2 Ng4, aiming for Ne3 (28.Nd5 Qxe4+).

23.Qh5 Kg7! 24.Qxf5 (24.exf5 Rh6; 24.Rxf5 Rd2) 24...Ne5 25.Nd5 Ng4 26.Rf3 (26.Rf4 Nxh2! 27.e5 [27.Kxh2 Rh6+] 27...Nxf1!) 26...Rxf3 27.Qxf3 Nxh2! 28.Kxh2 Rh6+ with perpetual: 29.Kg3 Rg6+ 30.Kh2 etc. (30.Kf4? Qd2+ 31.Qe3 Qxg2 32.Qf2 Rg4+ 33.Ke3 Qxe4+ 34.Kd2 Rg2).

Oct-24-08  anjyplayer: Its too late mr. drawnik !
Oct-24-08
Premium Chessgames Member
  Domdaniel: <Eyal> Thanks for the extended quotes. I accept that both players saw vastly more than everyone here put together, and Kramnik made the right decision in the end. Even if it doesn't suit those who'd applaud him for valiantly going down in flames ...
Oct-24-08  Maximus0723: Man, what's up with all these drawnik crap. This is the same guy who beat mighty Kasparow al beit not the same player any more but not too far from it either. Anand seems to be better player. But even as a Anand fan, it's sad to see so much Kramnik hate.
Oct-24-08  Woody Wood Pusher: This was a performance worthy of Drawnik indeed. Who wants the win when you can draw!? Pathetic!!
Oct-24-08  Petrosianic: Both hands on the keyboard, Woody.
Oct-24-08
Premium Chessgames Member
  kamalakanta: Anand is a gentleman. But in the videos I have watched of the games, when they shake hands at the beginning of each game, I can sense that Anand is "all business", and I sense that he can't wait to kick Kramnik's butt.

I think it is an insult to Anand to say that he is not the World Champion because he won it in a tournament. What a ridiculous statement! Botvinnik won the World Championship in a tournament, in 1948. Why? Because Alekhine died in 1946, and there was no clear successor.

So, in an unclear situation, where the effort to unify or clarify is needed, a tournament is not inferior to a match. I know it has been messy, but I think Anand has been upset at all the speculations that he is the World Champion ONLY because it was a tournament, and not a match. That belief is ridiculous, given Anand's strengths as a player and competitor.

So I sense a little "fire" in Anand, an extra spark of motivation, a moral strength to silence all his critics, with a convincing win.

It is also a sign of weakness on Kramnik's part that he has had to say what he said about Anand having the title. If you are strong and confident, you do not have to say that you "lent" Anand the title. Please!

Anyhow, I am sorry if I have offended anyone with these statements, but I have tremendous respect for both players.

As for Kramnik's position in history, who am I to judge? He is in the middle of his chess career, and it is too early to judge him, because he is still in the process of perfecting his chess, and possibly being at the top for a while.

Aside from this, beating Kasparov in the year 2000 was a monumental achievement. Kasparov is like our modern era's Alekhine, with an ultra-universal and dynamic style, and an iron will. It is not Kramnik's fault if Kasparov did not play at his best level in 2000. Rather, it is partly due to Kramnik that Kasparov did not play at his best. For when you sense strength in your opponent, you lose a bit of your own. The same way that Anand is making Kramnik look bad right now, Kramnik made Kasparov look bad in the year 2000. Among modern masters, Kasparov has the highest winning percentage, and yet he could not win ONE GAME against Kramnik in 2000. Again, a monumental achievement by Kramnik, no matter what anyone says.

Right now Anand is playing better. Maybe next time Kramnik is playing better. Who knows? Sometimes priorities change... what if a player wants to start a family, and devote his time to something else?

Or what if a player starts a family, and that gives him more fulfillment and joy, more inner peace, and he starts playing better?

Going back to Anand shaking hands, he almost does not look at Kramnik when they shake hands. He does not want to break his concentration, which might be already in the game about to start...

Just my own feeling, that's all...these are some of my impressions...

Oct-24-08  dexterious: <Even if it doesn't suit those who'd applaud him for valiantly going down in flames ...>

LOL, what a weird cult Kramnik has. Or as his cult probably calls him, Maximus Vlodius. LOL, he's not fighting a war for global domination, he's just another russian drawing a 40-move game of chess to claw at his share of 2.5 million dollars with minimum effort.

Oct-24-08
Premium Chessgames Member
  An Englishman: Good Evening: I doubt that Anand will try the Vienna again, even if he held the draw with some fine defensive play. Still, he is only one point away from victory, and Kramnik doesn't seem to have any fight left in him. It would be nice to see Anand finish off the match with a bang, but realistically, two quick and easy draws seem more likely.
Oct-24-08  Kaspablanca: I dont want to see Topalov in the WC match, let`s wait to see Anand-Kamsky.
Oct-24-08  crazy monk: <I think it is an insult to Anand to say that he is not the World Champion because he won it in a tournament.> Exactly, Winning Mexico 2007 tourney is 7x harder than beating Kramnik I think.
Oct-24-08  crazy monk: <dont want to see Topalov in the WC match> Why? Only Topa has a real chance against Anand (base on their past record).
Oct-24-08  M.D. Wilson: I'd love to see an Anand-Carlsen or an Anand-Aronian Match in the future. Why do people hate Kramnik? Why waste the energy to post if you hate him so much? The only man who can judge Kramnik at this very moment is Anand, not a group of ignorant, boring kibitzers.
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