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Later Kibitzing> |
| Jul-01-11 | | rilkefan: Lovely ending. I got the right idea after trying pawn pushes with the goal of drawing after 52.c8=Q. But I didn't see why Re3 was forced over Re2. |
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| Jul-01-11 | | SamAtoms1980: When I saw the position, I thought I was trying for a draw. But it looks like Black can end up with a win when it all settles down. I tried 51....Re2, so that if 52.c8=Q Rd2+ 53.Kc6 Rc2+ and 54....Rxc8 55.Kxc8 fxg3, or if 52.Bxg5 Rd2+ 53.Kc6 Rxh2 (though after 54.Bxf4, Black will indeed be lucky to escape with the draw). But the actual sequence shows the hole in the idea: if the Rook is on c2, then 54.Be3 stops Black cold. |
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Jul-01-11
 | | Phony Benoni: 
click for larger view<51...?>
The basic idea looks simple enough: 51...Re 52.c8Q Rd+ 53.Kc Rc+ followed by 54...Rxc8 and 55...f3, when the bishop will not be able to stop both the a- and f-pawns. Standard idea, so there must be a diabolical defense. And does it really matter which square the rook goes to? 52.Bxg5 seems like one idea. That means that 51...Re1 might not work, since if Black plays ...f3 than the crucial checking square on c1 is guarded. For instance, 51...Re1 52.Bxg5 Rd1+ 53.Kc8 f3 54.Kb8, and it looks like Black is in trouble. If Black plays a rook move instead of 53...f3, then 54.Bxf4 removes most of the danger for White. Will 51...Re2 do the trick? 52.Bxg5 Rd2+ 53.Kc8, and White has the same problem again: 53...f3 54.Bxd2, or 53...Rc2 54.Bxf4. So that may be why White chose 51...Re3. Now 52.Bxg5 Rd3+ 53.Kc8 f3, and the bishop can't stop the rook from getting to the c-file. That's the best I can come up with right now. I really need to figure out how to work a computer to get some real analysis. |
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| Jul-01-11 | | karma737: Hi, why did white sacrifice the rook playing 48.Rd7 instead of taking the pawn on h5? |
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| Jul-01-11 | | tovoltaire: rilkefan, if Re2 then the bishop goes to e3 and stops the f pawn's promotion and the rook's crucial check on the d file! |
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| Jul-01-11 | | johnlspouge: Friday (Difficult)
V Cmilyte vs J Houska, 2008 (51...?) Black to play and win.
Material: R+P for B. White threatens 52.c8=Q, which Black can counter only with a R check on the d-file, forcing the White Kd7 to move into a skewer against the new Q on the c-file, or worse, to c8, blocking the queening square and losing an extra tempo. Candidates (51...): Re3
51…Re3 (a rank where Bd8 has trouble preventing checks on the d- and c-files) (1) 52.c8=Q Rd3+ 53.Kc6 (or Kc7) Rc3+ 54.K moves Rxc8 56.Kxc8 56…f3 (threatening f2-f1=Q)
57.Bb6 a4
The White Bb6 is tied to the stop square f2 and cannot stop Pa4-a3-a2-a1=Q without permitting f1=Q. The White K is also too far away to stop either Pa4 or Pf3. (2) 52.Bxg5 (worse than above, by losing a tempo)
52…f3 (threatening f2-f1=Q)
54.c8=Q Rc3+ 55.c1=Q Rd3+ 56.Kc7 Rc6+ 57.K moves Rxc8 56.Kxc8 f2 Black plays 57.f1=Q and wins.
(3) 52.Bf6 (to prevent Rc6+)
52…Rd6+ 53.K to c-file Kxf6
The Rd6 can now move to the c-file and sacrifice itself for White’s new Q, with an easy win. |
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| Jul-01-11 | | Sydro: 51...Re4 works too right? |
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Jul-01-11
 | | al wazir: I think 52. gxf4 draws: 52...gxf4 53. Bg5 Rd3+ 54. Kc8 f3 55. Bh4 Rd2 56. Kb7 Rb2+ 57. Ka6 Rc2 (57...Rb6+ 58. Ka7) 58. Kb7. |
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| Jul-01-11 | | Sydro: <al wazizr>: 58...Rxc7 59.Kxc7 a4 
click for larger viewBlack is winning. |
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Jul-01-11
 | | beatgiant: <al wazir>
In your line, I think Black trades his rook for the c-pawn, and then White's bishop is overloaded and can't stop both the f-pawn and the a-pawn.52...gxf4 53. Bg5 Rd3+ 54. Kc8 f3 55. Bh4 <Rc3> 56. Kb7 a4, etc. Have I missed something? |
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Jul-01-11
| | al wazir: <Sydro: 58...Rxc7 59.Kxc7 a4. Black is winning.> Your're right. Well, it was a good try. Thanks |
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Jul-01-11
| | al wazir: <beatgiant>: You too. |
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Jul-01-11
 | | An Englishman: Good Evening: I picked the game move because of the added threat of ...fxg3, but are any of the Rook moves on the e-file just as effective? |
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| Jul-01-11 | | M.Hassan: "Difficult" Black to play 51...?
Black has a Rook and a pawn for a Bishop.
White has a passed pawn on row 7 that can not be stopped from promotion.What can be done is check the White King after promotion: 51............Re3
52.c8=Q Rd3+
53.Kd7 Rc3+
54.Kb7 Rxc8
55.Kxc8 f3
56.Bb6 a4
Black has now two passed pawns and I don't think one Bishop & White King can manage to stop one of them from promotion.
click for larger view
Time to check |
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Jul-01-11
 | | Jimfromprovidence: I got 51…Re4, below (or 51…Re3, or 51…Re1, but not 51…Re2 or 51…Re5).
click for larger view
If white promotes with 52 c8Q, then black wins after 52…Rd4+ 53 Kc7 Rc4+ 54 Kb7 Rxc8 55 Kxc8.
click for larger viewBlack continues with 55…f3 and white’s bishop can only stop one of black’s passed pawns. 51...Re1 looks the most difficult to win as after 52 Bxg5 Rd1+ 53 Kc8 f3 54 Kb8 f2, both pawns promote after 55 c8Q f1Q. 
click for larger view |
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| Jul-01-11 | | dzechiel: Black to move (51...?). Black has a rook and a pawn for a bishop. "Difficult." Needless to say, white threatens to change the material balance drastically with the promotion of the c-pawn. Black must take quick action. 51...Re1
I'm not sure if this is best, or if there even is a "best" square for the rook (51...Re2) may do just as well. In any case, black must be ready to follow 52 c8=Q with a check on the d-file (51...Rd1+) followed by a check on the c-file and the capture of the new queen on c8. So, what is white to do? There's no way now of stopping the black rook from capturing the c-pawn, so why not take as much as you can with the bishop? 52 Bxg5
Hmm..., this is looking pretty good for white. I wish I had more time, but I'm putting the finishing touches on my Europe report. Time for me to check and see how this ended. |
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| Jul-01-11 | | tacticalmonster: candidate: 51 Re4- The only square on the e-file not affected by Bxg5 a) 52 c8=Q Rd4+ 53 Kc6 Rc4+ 54 Kb7 Rxc8 55 Kxc8 f3 56 Bb6 a4 57 Bd4 a3  b) 52 gxf4 gxf4 53 Kc6 Rc4+ 54 Kb5 Rc2
c) 52 Bxg5 f3 53 Kc6 Rc4+ 54 Kb5 Rxc7 55 Be3 Rc2
Time spent: 10 mins |
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| Jul-01-11 | | M.Hassan: <Karma 737: Why did white sacrifice the rook playing 48.Rd7 instead of taking the pawn on h5?> I think the purpose was to remove the Bishop from the Queening square so that White could go c8=Q So:
48.Rd7 if Bishop declines, next move
49.Rd8 Rxd8
50.cxd8=Q+
But this line did not occur
48.Rd7 Bxd7+
49.Kxd7 Kf7
And now I wonder why did'nt White play
50.c8 ?
50.c8 Rxc8
51.Kxc8
White would have ended up with a Bishop and 2 pawns against 4 pawns of Black. I guess the game would have been a draw. What do you think? |
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| Jul-01-11 | | M.Hassan: <karma 737>:
50.c8 Rxc8
51.Kxc8
Would have ended up win for Black as in the game.
I have contrasted my previous post!
Sorry |
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Jul-01-11
 | | Sneaky: After brief inspection I find the plan that other's have mentioned: the rook moves down the e-file intending to check on the d-file, thereby ensuring that even if the pawn queens, Rc+ will win that queen right back. Then it's just a matter of merrily going on to win with our f-pawn. With that plan in mind it's like a dessert buffet with so many delicious morsels you don't know where to start. 51.♖e4 or 51.♖e3 or 51.♖e2
The eclaire, the cheesecake, or the chocolate mousse? I think the big nuance here is that after ♖e4 or ♖e3, ...♗xg5 isn't a good defense but 51.♖e2? allows that annoying defense ...♗xg5 52.♖d2+ ♔c8 and then to White's chagrin that darn f-pawn is PINNED as shown: 
click for larger viewAnd remember, our plan involves "we merrily going on to win with our f-pawn" ... but it isn't going to be so merry if Black gets to play ♗x♖. So we scratch ♖e2? off our menu. That leaves only one last choice: between ♖e3 and ♖e4, are they actually of equal worth? I thought so when I tried this puzzle, but when I asked my silicon buddy it informed me that after 51.♖e4 Black should be stubborn with ...c8=♘(!) Δ ♘d6+, and causing enough complications to give white a few headaches. White still is winning, but compared to 51.♖e3!! it's quite a pain. So let's take tally: this means ♖e3!!  is the best choice, ♖e4  is surely winning but slightly inaccurate due to the underpromotion complications, and ♖e2? is just a stinker. |
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| Jul-01-11 | | abuzic: 51...Re4, ...Re3 are the best moves, ...Re1 possible but not immediately clear win for black (Q+R for Q+B and white's king position is exposed) 51...Re2, black has to continue with very accurate moves and a draw is possible here: for example (52. Bxg5 Rd2+ 53. Kc8 Rc2 54. Bxf4 Ke7 55. Rg5+ Ke8 56. h3 a4 57. g4 a3 58. Bf6 Rc6 59. Be5 Rc5 60. Bf6 a2 61. gxh5 Rxh5 62. Kb7....etc. |
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| Jul-01-11 | | abuzic: abuzic: On <51...Re4 52. c8N> Black can continue 52...Rd4+ and white has only 3 choices: 53 .Nd6+, Kc7 and the obviously bad Kc6. 53. Nd6+ Rxd6+ 54. Kxd6 f3 and either a or f pawn will promote. 53. Kc7 f3 ( or even ...Rc4+ followd by ...Rxc8) and black should win. |
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| Jul-01-11 | | Dyonis: Obviously...this woman is...very intelligent... |
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Jul-01-11
 | | LIFE Master AJ: I got this, but I had an odd way of getting there.
Initially, I wanted to play 51...Re1; but after a King move and 52...Rc1; 53.BxP/g5, f3??; is no good because of 54.BxR/c1. ( ) This got to to looking at all the squares far downfield, I eventually went with e3, because in some lines ...RxB/e3; (with or without check) is a winning move for Black. I fully expected to be wrong, but my off-beat logic got the job done today. |
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Jul-01-11
| | LIFE Master AJ: I should also note that I probably exceeded the (self imposed) 5-minute rule for this problem. This has been happening more and more lately ... a disturbing trend - to be sure. |
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Kibitzing
sac: 21...Bxb2+