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Jul-16-10
 | | HeMateMe: Didn't seem as though Kramnik played the opening very well. |
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Jul-16-10
 | | sbevan: <HeMateMe: Didn't seem as though Kramnik played the opening very well.> I don't know but it looks to me as though
15...g5
was the problem.
Isn't everything forced from that?
Beautifully accurate play by White, IMHO |
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| Jul-16-10 | | savagerules: The piece sacrifice 16 Bxd5! was like a grenade going off in Black's bunker. If Magnus Carlsen was playing White in this game there would have been 40 pages of kibitzes to this game here saying how stupendous and brilliant he was to take out Kramnik in this way. But since he was not playing you get crickets chirping in the vast emptiness. |
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| Jul-16-10 | | fromoort: <savagerules>You're right. But as Ponomariov shows us here, other GM's can play as spectacularly, sometimes even more so, as Carlsen. Actually, I'd say Carlsen's play is not spectacular as much as it is insistent, probing, problem-setting, trying to provoke a mistake. Once it comes, he usually doesn't make mistakes reeling the point in. |
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| Jul-16-10 | | yalie: was Bd5 prepared or played OTB? |
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| Jul-16-10 | | Jim Bartle: "But since he was not playing you get crickets chirping in the vast emptiness." They've been chirping for almost three hours now. |
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| Jul-16-10 | | znsprdx: actually it would be an interesting experiment to test how many 'C' players would 'find' the rather obvious 16.Bxd5 the defensive blunder was Rc8, a 'C' player's defense... Pretty hard to sell idea that this game was played by 2700+ if it was placed in a mix of GM games with no names... |
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| Jul-16-10 | | mrriddler: Ahm, really, Bxd5 is an easy move for a "C" player move to find? Seriously, that's what a C player can do these days? I was pretty amazed. Leaving a piece en prise like that for like 5-6 moves and seeing that zugswang on move 35. I don't believe Ponomariov calculated everything, but he almost certainly knew he could use that free tempi at the right moment. Surely, this was a fantastic game by Ponomariov especially after some of his tough loses? Right? |
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| Jul-16-10 | | drmariogodrob: <mrriddler> Well, to be fair the zugzwang is not necessary for the win. Basically as soon as he saw he could enter a pawn-up king endgame, this should be sufficient to take this route. For example, on move 35, the move h5 also wins...after 35. ... Kg5 36. h6 Kxh6 37. Kxg4... However, seeing that it was possible to enter a pawn-up king endgame! Now this is something :-). In any case, Bxd5 is `obviously' not obvious. That much is clear. |
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| Jul-16-10 | | newton296: after pono played Bf4 instead of f4 to protect e5 you just knew a sac was coming if kramnik played ...g5 to chase the bishop away and go after the pawn! I gotta say, I'm glad kramnik picked up the gauntlet and played ...g5!? it made for a great game and pono proved he had it all figured out! congrats to pono for a great game! maybe even a brilliancy price! |
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| Jul-16-10 | | AuN1: i'd say the key to the whole thing was that black's bishop on e7 was unprotected. |
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| Jul-16-10 | | polarmis: My translation of Sergey Shipov's commentary on the game is here: http://www.chessintranslation.com/2... In a very brief summary:
1) Ponomariov came up with a very cunning novelty on move 12 that Kramnik didn't manage to deal with. 2)15...g5 was no worse than the other options.
3) Ponomariov gave Kramnik one chance (with 18. Nc7, instead of retreating the bishop) - Kramnik needed to play ...gxf4 4) But overall it was an incredibly complicated game and Ponomariov deserved his win. But Shipov puts it all much better! |
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| Jul-16-10 | | Golden Executive: Very good job <Polarmis> thank you very much. |
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| Jul-16-10 | | kdogphs: Not very often that Kramnik gets outfoxed in the endgame. |
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| Jul-16-10 | | acirce: Rather, not very often that Kramnik has a lost position before move 20. When it reached the endgame it was already hopeless anyway. |
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| Jul-16-10 | | Call me Ishmael: A Morphyesque performance!
The best game of the year. |
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| Jul-16-10 | | birthtimes: 10...Nfd7 is the regular response here...wonder if Kramnik's 10th move was home cooked or thought up during this game?! |
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| Jul-16-10 | | birthtimes: Here's a similar game played back in 2003...wonder if either of these players was familiar with it?! B Sambuev vs P Smirnov, 2003 |
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| Jul-16-10 | | birthtimes: R. Pon's 12th move here is much stronger than B. Sam's move back in 2003... |
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| Jul-16-10 | | dx9293: Amen, <savagerules>! |
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Jul-16-10
 | | chancho: This is the kind of game where <AnalyzeThis> would say someone got slapped around. |
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| Jul-17-10 | | fischer2009: my god oh god
kramnik jus got run over; |
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| Jul-17-10 | | percyblakeney: Pono is one of the few players to have really good stats against Kramnik, with white he is +3 -1 =2, and the loss came 7½ years ago. The career total with both colours seems to be +3 -3 =4. Still surprising to see him win like this. |
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Jul-17-10
 | | Check It Out: Excellent comments up to now; great thread! Man, how often to you get to see Kramnik smoked like that? I love the fact that Kramnik's had a resurgence after the Anand - Kramnik WC match, but it makes for good sport. I've never been completely impressed with Pono, though obviously he's world class; there's something about him...who knows? Whatever, this victory is impressive, all the more so because Kramnik comes off as so invincible. I don't think 16.Bxd5 is a "C" class move, from personal experience. Actually, white to move at 16 would make a good daily Saturday or Sunday puzzle, in about 5 years when we've forgotten about this exciting game. |
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| Jul-17-10 | | Reisswolf: Wow. I believe now Ponomariov has a positive record against Kramnik (in classical games). I would not have thought that. |
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Kibitzing
sac: 16.Bxd5