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< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 4 OF 4 ·
Later Kibitzing> |
Sep-21-12
 | | chrisowen: Instead why og hurter f5 pitching for aint it given rook dominance in seventh and fifth bishop free having d7xf5? read in go d5 orthodox despatch, in e8 can forestall headway but end jostle feels to fetch in back rake now ardent support natural f3 in f5 whats stopping him dilligent lead for f5 either in c1+ course queen set sparking h2 Rxh3+ grotbags lapel tag in Qxh3 qf4+ all fish forth righter mine aether in g3 black cant let up per wares any bishop move will sneak in d8 1-0 i single source open aim 43.qg3 spine clop it fringe benefits finish a key it rookxg3 in wall electric 44.fxg3 loaming bishop and f4 is hackled by re7 again pg3 soar on situ in both are not retreivables single disguise to little feint queens simply no good again d7 d5 rooks have rights free see d4 in plaster. <40.Qxf5 Qc1+ 41.Kh2 Rxh2+ 42.Qxh3 Qf4+ 43.Qg3 Rxg3 44.fxg3> 
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| Sep-21-12 | | kevin86: I fell for Rdd7,but the exchange results in a pawn break for black: 40 ♖dd7 ♕xd7 41 ♕xb3+ axb3 42 ♖xd7 ♖b6!! |
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Sep-21-12
 | | Jimfromprovidence: Like several others I saw 40 Qxf5, seeing 41 Qf7+, but black's responses 40...Qc1+ followed by 41...Rxh3+ shocked me. Even after 44 fxg3, below, I thought that black was either winning or could get a perpetual.
click for larger viewBut black's h pawn prevents ...44...Qh6+ with a perpetual. Also, that d pawn for white helps a lot. So if 44…Qg4 45 Rfxd7 Qe4 46 Re5 Qg6 follows we get the below position.
click for larger viewWhite does not have to worry about the perpetual threat …Qh5+ because he can push his d pawn to support his two rooks to a point where black has to give up his queen for a rook. Now I understand why black resigned being down only two rooks and a pawn for a queen |
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| Sep-21-12 | | LoveThatJoker: <whiteshark> Yes!
LTJ |
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| Sep-21-12 | | Robespierre: "...there is no right way to kibitz..."<Once>
Thanks, <Once>, for the nice summary of writing approaches that the birds who come to the ChessGames feeder take. As for me, I failed this time even to get White's first move correct! |
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| Sep-21-12 | | James D Flynn: Thank you francis2012 for your correction. If after Whites 40.Rxd7 there is no perpetual, then White is lost after that move. I believe I made a similar error in my analysis of Qxf5 I made a similar error in my final comment. In future, for positions deemed difficult or more, I will set up the board and analyze from there instead of relying on memory of the position from the screen. It seems at 73, I am a bit past playing blindfold. |
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| Sep-21-12 | | tivrfoa: For me Wednesday and Thursday were more difficult than today. O.o |
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| Sep-21-12 | | Ayreonaut: I think 40. Rd5xd7 can only lead to trouble as 40... Qxd7 41. Rxd7 Rxf3. Is there something I'm not seeing? |
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| Sep-21-12 | | Conrad93: I just pointed out that 40.Rdxd7 loses.
It leads to mate.
Why do people keep mentioning a losing line? |
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| Sep-21-12 | | newzild: I have an off-topic question. A few posts ago <once> mentioned <dzechiel>, who used to be ubiquitous in these daily puzzle threads. I haven't seen a <dzechiel> post for ages. What happened to him? |
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| Sep-21-12 | | James D Flynn: Havings posted my initial analysis and acknowledged the errors I now feel free to play out the position over the board and make correctins: 40.Rdxd7 (threat Rr8+ and back rank mate cannot be met) Qxd7 . 40.Qxb3+ axb3 and now 41, Rdxd7 Rb6 42.Nf4 b2 43.Nd5 b1=Q+ 44.Kh2 Re6 and White is out of useful checks, Black wins.
40.Qxf5 Rxg2+ 41.Kh1(not Kxg2 Bxf5 42.Kf1 Qxd5) Rxh3+ (if Rb1+ 42.Qxb1 Qxd5 43.Qh7+ Kf8 44.Rxd7 Rg7+ 45>Rxd5 Rxh7 and White wins with his extra N) 42.Qxh3 Qxd5+ 43.Qg2+ Qxg2+ 44.Kxg2 Bc6+ 45,f3(or Kg3) and White has a won(not probably)endgame. |
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Sep-21-12
 | | piltdown man: Yup! Found it in a second! |
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| Sep-21-12 | | nateinstein: I don't see how white survives 40...Rxg2+. King can't take right? Otherwise 41. Bxf5 wins for black? What am I missing? If white can't take, then lots of checks coming white's way, and starts to get ugly... |
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| Sep-22-12 | | PhilFeeley: 1. Qf5 jumped out at once. It seemed like a very logical move. But I had no idea what black would do against it, so I didn't get the sequence that followed. |
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| Sep-22-12 | | TheBish: Estrin vs J Zapletal, 1972 White to play (40.?) "Difficult"
My first hunch proved correct, but in analyzing the variations, I rejected it when I thought I found a refutation. Upon closer inspection, I realized White has an improvement. 40. Qxf5!! Rxg2+!
Best try for Black, but losing with best play. Alternatives are 40...Bxf5 41. Rd8+, mating, and 40...Rb1+ 41. Qxb1 Qxd5 42. Qxg6+, with mate coming on g7. 41. Kh1!
It probably doesn't matter whether the kings goes to h1 or f1, but not 41. Kxg2? Bxf5, and Black wins because the Rd5 is pinned. 41...Rb1+ 42. Qxb1 Qxd5 43. Qh7+ Kf8 44. Qg7#. |
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| Sep-22-12 | | TheBish: Wow, I missed the variation played in the game. As the saying goes, "Always check, it might be mate!" |
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Sep-22-12
 | | Phony Benoni: <newzild> <dzechiel> is taking a bit of a break due to the pressures of Real Life. <nateinstein> The 40...Rxg2+ line is critcal, but White still wins. 
click for larger viewHowever, 41.Kh1? loses. One line is 41...Rxh3+ 42.Qxh3 Qc1+! 43.Kxg2 Bxh3+! 44.Kxh3 Qh1+ and 45...Qxd5. A very easy line to miss. Paradoxically, 41.Kf1! wins.
click for larger viewIt looks like the White is in trouble, but Black cannot effectively chase it down. For example: 41...Qc1+ 42.Kxg2!. Black has no effective checks, and with the rook unpinned White's queen is safe and his threats take precedence. 41...Qc4+ 42.Kg2 Qxd5+ 43.Qxd5+!, and Black doesn't even get to pin the queen with ...Bc6. 41...Rb1+ 42.Qxb1, and White's threat of 43.Qh7+ saves his rook on d5. The previous kibitzing contains these and many other lines. This is a very complicated position, and I think most everybody stumbled at one point or another. |
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| Sep-22-12 | | Abdel Irada: <Once>: <Someone "doing a dzechiel" will invariably not have read earlier kibitzes. A "delver for truth" usually (but not always) will. Not right or wrong, just different ways of getting something out of the website.> It's my impression that the present tendency is to do both: First, to present a "solution post" as free as possible from all outside influences; then, to examine other kibitzes (and perhaps consult software if one has it), and discuss other ideas in the position. |
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| Sep-22-12 | | Once: <Abdel Irada> Some people do it that way, but it's not universal. Nor is it the only way to post. Until dzechiel started doing it, it was actually quite rare to have pure "solution posts". In fact, a number of us deliberately don't do it that way because it can be overdone. Some people do it well - I particularly enjoy your thorough and witty posts - but not everyone. It can also be quite tedious to wade through dozens of identical solutions (eg on a Monday or Tuesday). I hope dzechiel takes it as a compliment that so many people have followed his lead, almost to the point where some think it is the only way to kibitz. |
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| Sep-22-12 | | Abdel Irada: <Once>: I don't in any way argue that it's the "only" way, nor was I here before <dzechiel> blazed this apparently new trail. It's merely my observation that the stronger players here do tend to follow the two-part posting approach I described. We might call it a "dzechiel fusion." :-) |
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| Sep-22-12 | | Once: Funny, I don't see the same pattern. I see players of all strengths following dzechiel's example, just as we get a wide variety of players who don't do it that way. Similarly, there are different ways of doing a dzechiel. Some people write down the moves as they analyse them. Others (me included) don't record variations as we go, because that is not a facility allowed in OTB chess. Some people apply a strict time limit (again to mimic OTB play). Others will spend hours on a puzzle. A pure dzechiel includes lines analysed but subsequently rejected. Dzechiel wanted to show his thought processes including how he arrived at a solution by examining lines that didn't quite work. Some people include their "working out", some don't. But I really want to get away from the idea that there's only one way to kibitz. Or that stronger players do it this way or that way. To be successful, this website needs to appeal to a broad church. From beginner to super GM. From blitz speed freaks to more leisurely correspondence deep analysts. From ultra competitive individuals to more sociable creatures. And that, for me, means that we shouldn't try to control how people post or pass judgement on the style of posts. As long as we stick to the posting guidelines, surely it's perfectly okay for people to take from the site and give back in whatever style works for them? |
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| Sep-22-12 | | Abdel Irada: <Once>: On that there is no argument: <CG.com> is at its best when and because it fosters a broad diversity of styles and approaches. We are, after all, individuals. No two of us are alike or ever could be. Any constraints applied contrary to this dictum are artificial and doomed to fail. |
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| Sep-23-12 | | Conrad93: Benoni your analysis doesn't make any sense. 42.Qf7+ mates in one. |
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| Sep-23-12 | | Abdel Irada: <Conrad93>: Please be more specific. In all the lines <Phony Benoni> posted, it seems to me that White couldn't mate on f7 on move 42 because he was in check at the time. |
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| Dec-30-15 | | yurikvelo: http://pastebin.com/fryq9Szg
this game multiPV
9. ... Qe8? (9. ... fxe5!)
13. ... Nb6? (13. ... Qe7!)
19. ... a6? (19. ... Qd8!)
24. ... Ne7? (24. ... Qb4!)
31. ... Qd6? (31. ... h6!)
32. ... Rc7?? (32. ... Bd7!)
33. ... Bd7? (33. ... f4!)
34. ... Rc2? (34. ... Qc6)
37. ... Rxg6?? (37. ... Rc1!)
38. ... Rxb2? (38. ... Rc1)
Some Estrin inaccuracies:
21.Rcd1 - better 21.Ne5 or 21.h4
33.Ng5 - better 33.h5
36.h5 - better 36.Re7!
37.hxg6? 37.Re7!
38.Nh3 - better 36.Re7! |
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< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 4 OF 4 ·
Later Kibitzing> |
Kibitzing
sac: 40.Qxf5