chessgames.com
Members · Prefs · Laboratory · Collections · Openings · Endgames · Sacrifices · History · Search Kibitzing · Kibitzer's Café · Chessforums · Tournament Index · Players · Kibitzing
Albert Marder vs Jose Raul Capablanca
"Marder in the Dark" (game of the day Apr-16-2016)
Rice CC Masters (1913), New York, NY USA, Jul-26
Spanish Game: Closed Variations (C84)  ·  0-1

ANALYSIS [x]

FEN COPIED

explore this opening
find similar games 1,183 more games of Capablanca
PGN: download | view | print Help: general | java-troubleshooting

TIP: You can display posts in reverse order, by registering a free account then visiting your preferences page and checking the option "Display newest kibitzes on top."

PGN Viewer:  What is this?
For help with this chess viewer, please see the Olga Chess Viewer Quickstart Guide.
PREMIUM MEMBERS CAN REQUEST COMPUTER ANALYSIS [more info]

A COMPUTER ANNOTATED SCORE OF THIS GAME IS AVAILABLE.  [CLICK HERE]

Kibitzer's Corner
Dec-17-12  12.12.12: white's king gets tied to the defense of f3. tsk tsk
Jul-11-15
Premium Chessgames Member
  Phony Benoni: So gentle. One can imagine Capabalanca saying afterward, "Now that didn't hurt, did it?"
Apr-16-16  Mendrys: The final position is very prosaic. All 4 pieces on the board occupy white's second rank and white is powerless to stop h5 and h6.
Apr-16-16  goodevans: Remove black's h-pawn and the position would be zugzwang but with the h-pawn an the board technically it isn't.

Shame, 'coz I love zugzwangs.

Apr-16-16  WickedPawn: Interesting that after 15.Nxe5 'winning' a pawn, 15...Nxe5, 16.Qxh5, Bg4 traps the white queen

I would have taken on e5 immediately in a blitz game.

Apr-16-16  morfishine: definition of prosaic: adjective
1.commonplace or dull; matter-of-fact or unimaginative

Frankly, I find the final position interesting and not dull or prosaic at all

Apr-16-16
Premium Chessgames Member
  kevin86: Oops, white has no moves!
Apr-16-16
Premium Chessgames Member
  Peligroso Patzer: I am perplexed by <goodevans>'s post. The final position certainly seems to me as one in which White <is> in zugzwang.

It is possible that <goodevans>'s post meant to refer to <mutual> zugzwang positions (sometimes referred to by the term "trebuchet", especially in pawn endings; see: https://www.chess.com/chessopedia/v...), but if one considers the position after <39. a4> with Black's h-pawn removed, Black would not be in zugzwang. He would still have a waiting move with his king, such as 39. ... Kf6, which would leave White in zugzwang.

In conclusion, I would definitely classify this position under the heading "zugzwang", and I find it a rather elegant one. I agree with <morfishine> that it is by no means "prosaic", as characterized in a different post.

Apr-16-16  The Kings Domain: Fine game from the young Capablanca.
Apr-16-16  Mendrys: <morfishine: definition of prosaic: adjective 1.commonplace or dull; matter-of-fact or unimaginative> Dang it! You are right. Not a word I use very often but certainly not the correct choice for the final position. Thanks for the correction!
Apr-16-16  morfishine: <Mendrys> You are very kind to respond sir, sometimes we interject the wrong word or a word that is less effective...no problem at all sir

*****

Apr-16-16  jith1207: What's with that kind of prosaic conversation on the Internet!!!

You two get banned from commenting until you undergo calm-management courses.

Apr-16-16  Garech: From move 29 why doesn't white try Ng4? Looks like an annoying move to meet.

Interesting comments, I especially loved <phony Benoni's>!

Apr-16-16
Premium Chessgames Member
  northernfox: "A. Marder is Announced"
Apr-16-16
Premium Chessgames Member
  Calli: Hey Albert, don't be such a martyr.
Apr-16-16
Premium Chessgames Member
  Phony Benoni: <Grech> You definitely have a point. After <28...a5>:


click for larger view

<29.Ng4> would be aggravating, since Black cannot protect the e-pawn (29...Rc5 30.Nxe5!). And this holds for several moves, becoming especially bad after <31...Kf6>


click for larger view

When 32.Ng4+ simply wins the e-pawn directly and probably the game as well. (OK, maybe not against Capablanca, but still...)

When two strong players -- and Marder wasn't all that bad -- miss a simple continuation, it can be shrugged off. Time pressure, distraction, fatigue, or any of a dozen different reasons. When both strong players not only miss a simple continuation, but do so for several mvoes and even make the situation worse by their play, the reason is almost surely a bad score.

Now, I've looked into this tournament a bit (something I recommend to anyone who values their insanity) and had a few of the early sources of the game at hand. Here's the earlies I found, from the <New York Sun>, August 3, 1913:

http://chroniclingamerica.loc.gov/l...

If you don't want to bother, I'll tell you -- it's identical to our score. So if a mistake is in there, it's been there form the beginning and has simply been copied by everybody else. You don't need a computer to do that.

Why wasn't this brought up then? Because players like Capablanca get a pass on this sort of thing. We assume there's some devilish trap and move on.

After all this, here's my suggestion: after <28.Kg2>


click for larger view

28...P-QR4 is a typo for 28...P-KR4. Simple, easy, uncomplicated, and makes perfect sense as the game goes on. And one added benefit: after <39.a4>:


click for larger view

It turns out the quiet killer move is <39...a5!> -- even better than the game finish.

Unfortunately, there is probably no way this can be "proven", but by cracky I'll bet my bottom Chessbuck I'm right on this one.

Apr-16-16
Premium Chessgames Member
  Phony Benoni: Sorry, <Garech> -- but I'm not starting all over to correct the post!
Apr-16-16  Jim Bartle: "Marder Most Foul!"
Apr-17-16  goodevans: <Peligroso Patzer> The losing player in a zugzwang only loses because he/she is forced to move. In this position if white could forgo his moves black would still win by advancing the h-pawn.

That is why I say that although this position is very similar to a zugzwang it isn't truly a zugzwang.

You may be unsurprised to find that at work I have a bit of a reputation as a pedant. ;o)

Apr-17-16
Premium Chessgames Member
  Phony Benoni: Information from sources cited in the Biographer Bistro indicates that 28...h5 and 39...a5were the moves played.

THe discussion begins here:

Biographer Bistro (kibitz #13862)

Apr-27-16  Garech: Wow, great analysis <Phony Benoni>!

I'm delighted that you took such an interest in my comment and glad that together we uncovered the truth - although the vast majority of the credit of course belongs to you. Great detective work!

-Garech

NOTE: Create an account today to post replies and access other powerful features which are available only to registered users. Becoming a member is free, anonymous, and takes less than 1 minute! If you already have a username, then simply login login under your username now to join the discussion.

Please observe our posting guidelines:

  1. No obscene, racist, sexist, or profane language.
  2. No spamming, advertising, duplicate, or gibberish posts.
  3. No vitriolic or systematic personal attacks against other members.
  4. Nothing in violation of United States law.
  5. No cyberstalking or malicious posting of negative or private information (doxing/doxxing) of members.
  6. No trolling.
  7. The use of "sock puppet" accounts to circumvent disciplinary action taken by moderators, create a false impression of consensus or support, or stage conversations, is prohibited.

Please try to maintain a semblance of civility at all times.

Blow the Whistle

See something that violates our rules? Blow the whistle and inform a moderator.


NOTE: Please keep all discussion on-topic. This forum is for this specific game only. To discuss chess or this site in general, visit the Kibitzer's Café.

Messages posted by Chessgames members do not necessarily represent the views of Chessgames.com, its employees, or sponsors.
All moderator actions taken are ultimately at the sole discretion of the administration.

This game is type: CLASSICAL. Please report incorrect or missing information by submitting a correction slip to help us improve the quality of our content.

<This page contains Editor Notes. Click here to read them.>

Featured in the Following Game Collections[what is this?]
kinda zugswang
from 41_R+N - TActical TAngos by whiteshark
September,p. 195 [Game 171 / 2658]
from American Chess Bulletin 1913 by Phony Benoni
Ruy Lopez
by ISeth
4/16
from Games of the day for 2016. by truepacifism
April 16: Marder in the Dark
from Game of the Day 2016 by Phony Benoni
kinda zugswang
from Material: R+N - Tactical Tangos by Baby Hawk
4/16
from Games of the day for 2016. by Jaredfchess
Capablanca - Rice CC Masters 1913
by MissScarlett

Home | About | Login | Logout | F.A.Q. | Profile | Preferences | Premium Membership | Kibitzer's Café | Biographer's Bistro | New Kibitzing | Chessforums | Tournament Index | Player Directory | Notable Games | World Chess Championships | Opening Explorer | Guess the Move | Game Collections | ChessBookie Game | Chessgames Challenge | Store | Privacy Notice | Contact Us

Copyright 2001-2021, Chessgames Services LLC