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Mark Hebden vs Augustin Madan
Liverpool op (2007), rd 6, Sep-06
Indian Game: Kingside Fianchetto (A48)  ·  1-0

ANALYSIS [x]

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Kibitzer's Corner
Jun-29-17  Brapp: Madan persisted long enough being down material. Why was this the time to concede? 53...Rh5+ 54. Kb1 Rh7 and the game continues. Still a lost position though.
Jun-29-17
Premium Chessgames Member
  ChessHigherCat: 36....Bf8 doesn't help because the bishop is pinned after 37. Rd8. Veryvery tricky.
Jun-29-17
Premium Chessgames Member
  boringplayer: @ Brapp: White follows up with 55. Qb8+ and Be7.
Jun-29-17
Premium Chessgames Member
  Infohunter: <Brapp: Madan persisted long enough being down material. Why was this the time to concede? 53...Rh5+ 54. Kg1 Rh7 and the game continues. Still a lost position though.>

Yes, and that in short order, to wit: 55. Qb8+ Bf8 56. Be7.

Jun-29-17
Premium Chessgames Member
  sotto voce meo: Why continue after 38. Q x Q and a pawn down to boot?
Jun-29-17
Premium Chessgames Member
  agb2002: The material is identical.

Black threatens Rxe4.

The black rook and the pawns on a6, e7 and g5 are defenseless. Black's back rank is momentarily weak. These details suggest 35.Qxe7:

A) 35... Rxe4 36.Rd1

A.1) 36... Bd7 37.Rxd7 Qc1+ (37... Bf8 38.Rd8 wins decisive material) 38.Kh2 and the double threat Qxf7+ and Rd8+ wins.

A.2) 36... Bf8 37.Qxg5+ followed by Rd8 wins decisive material.

A.3) 36... h6 37.Rd8+ Qxd8 38.Qxd8+ Bf8 (38... Kh7 39.Qd3 Bf5 40.Qxa6 + - [Q+2P vs r+b]) 39.h4 g4 40.h5 + - [Q+P vs r+b], followed by Bh4 resumes the attack against the back king.

B) 35... Bf8 36.Qxg5+

B.1) 36... Bg7 37.Qh4 wins a third pawn at least (37... h6 38.Bh7+ Kxh7 39.Qxb4).

B.2) 36... Kh8 37.f3 + - [2P] and many threats (Rd1-d8, Qh5-Bh4-Bf6, etc.).

C) 35... Rc4 36.Qxg5

C.1) 36... Rxe4 37.Rd1 f6 38.exf6 Qc7 (38... Kf7(8) 39.Qxg7+ Ke8 40.Qe7#) 39.Rd8+ and mate next.

C.2) 36... Rc1+ 37.Rxc1 Qxc1+ 38.Kh2 + - [2P]. For example, 38... a5 39.Qd8+ Bf8 40.Qxa5, or 38... Qd2 39.Qh4 h6 40.Bb1 a5 41.Qe4 followed by Bh4 with many threats (Be7-Qh7#, Qa8-Be7, Bf6-Qh7, etc.).

Jun-29-17  Iwer Sonsch: 35.Bxh7+ Kxh7 36.Qxe7 (attacking the rook) and 37.Qxg5 wins 3 pawns for the piece, justified.
Jun-29-17
Premium Chessgames Member
  patzer2: Seems to me today's Thursday solution 35. Qxe7! to is almost Sunday level in difficulty.

After 35. Qxe7!, Black falls into White's trap and blunders with 35...Rxd4?? which allows the real winning shot 36. Rd1! (+3.16 @ 30 depth, Stockfish 8.)

Instead, after 35. Qxe7!, Black can make the win extremely difficult for White with 35...Qf8! 36. Qxf8+ Bxf8 37. Bd3 (+1.06 @ 39 depth, Stockfish 8) 37...h5 (diagram below,)


click for larger view

Here (diagram above) if White plays the "obvious" 38. Bxa6, Black replies 38...Kg7 (+0.97 @ 36 depth, Stockfish 8.) There, despite White's two pawn advantage, Black still retains practical drawing chances in a very difficult position for both sides.

P.S.: An argument could be made that 35. f3 is almost as good as 35. Qxe7! . Stockfish 8 assesses 35.f3 Rb5 36.Qxe7 h6 37.Qa7 a5 38.Rxa5 Qc1+ 39.Kh2 Rxa5 40.Qxa5 Qxe3 41.Qd8+ Bf8 42.h4 g4 43.Ba8 gxf3 44.Bxf3 (+0.61 @ 38 depth) With Queens on the board and an extra pawn, some players might prefer this option over the difficult endgame possibilities after 35. Qxe7 Qf8 36. Qxf8+ Bxf8 37. Bd3 .

Jun-29-17  Ariogermano: How many mistakes by Black Like:
50...Bf7 ?! I thought 50...Be5➕
51.g3 Bd5 ( prepare attacking in H1 by Rock ) what do you think?
Jun-29-17  NBZ: I once read a GM describing how Karpov is a great tactician because he knows how to make the simple moves work - the moves that you want to play in a given position, but which at first sight don't seem to work. I forget who described Karpov like this but I imagine a move like 35. Qxe7! is what he had in mind. It was the move I wanted to play as soon as I looked at the position, until I realized the bishop on e4 was hanging; and then I knew I had to try to make it work: after that, it is easy to see the Rd1 idea.

In a game maybe this is harder because after Rb4, my first instinct would not be to try to make Qxe7 work, but to take care of the bishop.

Jun-29-17  WorstPlayerEver: Good puzzle.
Jun-29-17  centralfiles: Back to Brapps Question:
53...Rh5+
54.Kh7 Rh7
55.Qb8+ Bf8
56.Be7 Be8!
Black still clings...
Jun-29-17
Premium Chessgames Member
  Once: I struggled with this one. I saw 35. Qxe7 but it didn't seem that white would get enough of an advantage for it to be a Thursday puzzle solution. 36. Rd1 to win the black queen is cute, but white does have to invest a rook and bishop to win that queen.

Sure I'd rather be white. I'd agree with <Patzer2> that the advantage is around a pawn or two. Doesn't feel Thursdayish.

Jun-29-17  RandomVisitor: 30...a5 looks like a draw. Passed pawns must be pushed.


click for larger view

Stockfish_17061704_x64_modern:

0.00/47 30...a5 31.f3 h6 32.Kh2 Rb8 33.Rc5 Qb6 34.Rc6 Qb5 35.Rc5

Jun-29-17  morfishine: <patzer2: Seems to me today's Thursday solution 35. Qxe7! to is almost Sunday level in difficulty> Are you sure? IMHO, this is another "only" problem with only 1 noticeable option at first glance...hardly "Sunday" level...more like Tues-Wed level at best

However, there is another option as pointed out by <Iwer Sonsch> but other than that, there's really not much to this position

*****

Jun-29-17
Premium Chessgames Member
  patzer2: <morfishine> The puzzle is Wednesday level after 35. Qxe7! Rxdk4? 36. Rd1! . However, finding a forced win for White is not so easy after 35. Qxe7! Qf8 36. Qxf8+ . At 35 and 40 depth per move, Stockfish 8 struggles to push the evaluation above a pawn advantage for White.

If you're simply looking for advantage, the puzzle isn't so hard. However, if you're trying to find a forced win for White after 35. Qxe7 Qf8 36. Qxf8+ , the puzzle is much more difficult.

Jun-30-17  RandomVisitor: After 35. Qxe7 Qf8 36. Qxf8+ Bxf8 stockfish cannot find a direct win after a long think:


click for larger view

Stockfish_17061704_x64_modern:

<+1.38/67 37.Bd3> h5 38.h4 gxh4 39.Bf4 Be7 40.Rxa6 Kg7 41.Ra7 Bc5 42.Ra1 Bd4 43.Rc1 Bb2 44.Rc5 Bd4 45.Rc7 Bb6 46.Rb7 Bc5 47.Rxb4 Bxb4 48.Bg5 h3 49.Bf6+ Kh6 50.f4 hxg2 51.Kxg2 Bd5+ 52.Kf2 Bc3 53.Bf5 Bc6 54.Bb1 Bh1 55.Bc2 Bd5 56.Bg5+ Kg7 57.Bd3 Bh1 58.Bh4 Bd5 59.Kf1 Bf3 60.Bf6+ Kf8 61.Kf2 Bg4 62.Bg5 Bb4 63.Be4 Bd2 64.Bf6 Bc1 65.Bc6 Be6 66.Bf3 Bg4 67.Be4 Bb2 68.Bd5 Bc3 69.Bh4 Ba5 70.Be4 Bd2 71.Bg5 Ba5 72.Bd5 Kg7 73.Bf6+ Kf8 74.Bc4 Bd2 75.Bg5 Ke8 76.Bb5+ Kf8

Jul-01-17  WorstPlayerEver: After 36. Rd1


click for larger view

Compare:

Yuri Krupenski vs Boris Gelfand
Paul Keres Memorial (2016) After 25. f6


click for larger view

Y Krupenski vs Gelfand, 2016

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