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Mar-02-21
 | | Stonehenge: Anziehender = the player with the white pieces. http://www.schwachspieler.de/frames... |
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Mar-02-21
 | | jessicafischerqueen:
<hemy> Thank you. In English idiom we would normally say that a simul giver attracted players or contestants, but not games. So maybe this phrasing is closest to the intended meaning of the German phrase given in the Schachblatter: <Games 58 and 59 were played during a simultaneous exhibition given by Emil Schallopp in the Riga Chess Club on March 24, 1893. The exhibition attracted 20 other contestants.> |
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Mar-02-21
 | | MissScarlett: <Now I can go through all 8 of the available hefts in the Baltische Schachblatter in order, and then change dates where necessary for those games already published to cg.com.> Were you unaware of the existence of the Julian calendar or did you assume the changeover had taken place everywhere back in the mists of time? |
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Mar-02-21
| | jessicafischerqueen:
And add <Stonehenge's> translation of "Anziehender" to get this: <Games 58 and 59 were played during a simultaneous exhibition given by the player with the white pieces in the Riga Chess Club on March 24, 1893. The exhibition attracted 20 other contestants.> |
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Mar-02-21
| | MissScarlett: <all 8 of the available hefts in the Baltische Schachblatter in order> What's the background of this magazine? |
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Mar-02-21
| | jessicafischerqueen:
<MissScarlett> I had assumed the change over was much, much earlier in European history than it actually was. I am happy to be corrected, so as to avoid future dating mistakes on this issue. I don't think it will take that long to find the dates of our Schachblatter games and check/change the dates where necessary. I will begin today. |
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Mar-02-21
| | MissScarlett: <I am happy to be corrected, so as to avoid future dating mistakes on this issue.> It's a bit concerning that nobody's raised the issue with you before. Is anyone out there paying attention to all the work we do? Still, let's do it anyway. |
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Mar-02-21
| | jessicafischerqueen:
<MissScarlett> The 8 Hefts (issues/editions) of the Schachblatter we refer to were published by Friedrich Amelung . <Friedrich Amelung was the editor of a chess column in various magazines. <<<From 1889 to 1901 he published the Baltic chess sheets in eight issues , a chronicle of chess life in this region and at the same time a platform for journalism, theoretical and historical chess articles.>>> [5] Finally, in 1898, Amelung was one of the founders and until 1901 first secretary of the Baltic Chess Federation . [6] > From: https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fried... ===
All 8 Hefts are in the public domain, and can be downloaded here http://dspace.ut.ee/discover?rpp=10... |
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Mar-02-21
| | jessicafischerqueen:
On some rare good news, all of the tags for E Schallopp vs Heinrichsen, 1893 are now displaying properly on the game page. |
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Mar-02-21
| | MissScarlett: <Final question- how do we know which calendar was used for the dates in the Schachblatter?> I notice that in a few places, Amelung give both dates, with the Gregorian in brackets. Fortunately, because of the text-heavy nature of the articles, there aren't a large number of games involved. It will be problematic when a game is dated just by the month. |
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| Mar-02-21 | | Chessist: This simultaneous display took place on 21 boards, not on 22. |
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Mar-02-21
| | jessicafischerqueen:
<Chessist> do you have another source? Schachblatter says these two games here: E Schallopp vs Heinrichsen, 1893 E Schallopp vs Tyschkov, 1893 plus 20 more?
<"Gespielt sind die Partien 58 und 59 im Rigauer Schach Verein am 12. Marz 1893 seitens des Anziehenden mit 20 anderen Partien."> |
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| Mar-03-21 | | Jean Defuse: ...
<21b or 22b> both interpretations are possible, what do the other chess magazines say? <Deutsche Schachzeitung 1893, p. 124:> Aus Riga. Der Berliner Meister E. Schallopp hielt sich im Monat März einige Wochen lang in Riga auf und war bei dieser Gelegenheit ein häutiger
Gast des dortigen Schachclubs. Zwischen ihm und den starken Rigaer Spielern fanden zahlreiche interessante Einzelkämpfe und Consultationspartien statt; ferner gab Herr Schallopp am 12. März eine Simultanvorstellung von 21 gleich zeitig geführten Spielen mit dem glänzenden Resultate, dass er 20 Partien
gewann und nur 1 verlor.
<Deutsches Wochenschach und Berliner Schachzeitung 1893, p. 193:> Am Freitag, den 12. März, gab Herr Schallopp ein Simultanspiel von 21 Partien, welches einen für den Meister glänzenden Verlauf nahm. Er gewann 20 Partien und verlor nur eine gegen C. Behting. Das Spiel dauerte 4 Stunden, von 9 Uhr Abends bis 1 Uhr Nachts. ... |
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| Mar-03-21 | | hemy: <Deutsches Wochenschach und Berliner Schachzeitung 1893, p. 193> Deutsches Wochenschach und Berliner Schachzeitung 1893, p. 139 |
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Mar-03-21
| | jessicafischerqueen:
I would be inclined to go with the <Deutsches Wochenschach und Berliner Schachzeitung 1893, p. 139> on 21 boards, given the more detailed information in the report. |
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| Mar-04-21 | | Chessist: <Baltische Schachblätter, Heft 6, p. 100> "Herr Schallopp ... spielte gleichzeitig 21 Partien. ...
Herr Schallopp gewann von 21 Partien 20. Die restirende verlor er gegen Herrn Carl Behting." |
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Mar-12-23
 | | jnpope: <Chessist> found the original source.
Source "Blätter fürs Haus. Beiblatt zur Saale-Zeitung, n13, 2 April 1893, p52" |
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| Mar-12-23 | | stone free or die: Definitely handy to have the link:
https://digitale.bibliothek.uni-hal... And to note that this source gives the Black player only as <N.H.>(*), while citing <Kleine Mittheilungen> as its source. (*) The source's font is Black Letter, so I might be mistaken - but certainly only the initials were given for Black, whereas <E. Schallopp> is given for White.
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Mar-12-23
| | jnpope: <And to note that this source gives the Black player only as <N.H.>(*)> Possibly <N. R.> as two lines above has Riga with what appears to be the exact same character. And perhaps not initials, but the German version of NN? I'm not sure if <Kleine Mittheilungen> is a "source" or an indication that it comes by way of a "brief comuniqué"). I see this term fairly often as a paragraph header for small bits of news:
https://books.google.com/books?id=g... https://books.google.com/books?id=d... Best guess Schallopp wired it in for publication, being that he was in Riga. The <Baltische Schachblätter>, heft 7, p332, definitely identifies black as a "Heinrichsen" and the game above is from the same exhibition. The other game's source is the <Rigaer Tageblatt>, so perhaps the <Baltische Schachblätter> had better information regarding Heinrichsen being the opponent? Do we have a source for the <Rigaer Tageblatt>? |
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| Mar-12-23 | | stone free or die: Ah, you might be right about <Kleine Mittheilungen>, but then why the quotes? And what's the single letter abbrev. just about? As for Schallopp wiring it in, quite possibly - but do we have any examples of him being cited as source in other columns from that publication? But on to the "nut" - <CG> already seems to have identified the player before publishing a contemporaneous source (<hemy> used online sources for the game, with the wrong event identification maybe?). The question is how did <CG> identify Black? . |
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Mar-12-23
| | jnpope: "N. R." = "Namen Rückhalten"? (Name Withheld)? <Ah, you might be right about <Kleine Mittheilungen>, but then why the quotes? And what's the single letter abbrev. just about?> No clue. We need some German pros to step in and help us figure this out. <As for Schallopp wiring it in, quite possibly - but do we have any examples of him being cited as source in other columns from that publication?> It was his chess column from February 1885 to June 1910. His name appears at the top just below "Schach" in every column. <The question is how did <CG> identify Black?> E Schallopp vs Heinrichsen, 1893 (kibitz #6) is my best guess. |
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Mar-12-23
| | jnpope: And here's a link to the page:
https://books.google.com/books?id=M... |
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Mar-13-23
| | jnpope: The bigger question for me is, how in the heck did the names get swapped to Heinrichsen-Schallopp and tied to Cologne 1898? Fiala gives it as Heinrichsen-Schallopp even though he cites the same source, i.e. <Baltische Schachblätter>. Did he just assume it was the game from Cologne 1898 and switch the colors because he knew who should be the winner? And I'm guessing those sites cited by <hemy> all ran with it without doing any double-checks of Fiala's sources. |
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Mar-13-23
| | jnpope: Schallopp's opponent was probably a "Heinrichsen", but I don't know if we can be positive it was Arved Heinrichsen (again, it'd be nice to see coverage of this exhibition from the <Rigaer Tageblatt>. |
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| Mar-13-23 | | stone free or die: Yes, my view is that online sources are good for leads, but the original sources get precedence. That means unwinding sometimes, a tedious and hard-to-do process. Especially when the online sources are correct - but based on info that's not documented, and unavailable. |
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