| Dec-23-22 | | Brenin: Black, down by a P but with better development, takes a draw with 17 ... Nxf2 18 Kxf3 Rxe3 (better than 18 ... Qxe3+, when the attack runs out of steam) 19 Kg3 (19 Kf1 or Ke1 Rae8) Qc7+ 20 Kf2 Qb6, etc. A more enterprising line might have been 17 ... Nxb4, e.g. 18 axb4 Qxb4+ and 19 ... Qxb2; however, 18 Bd4 puts a spanner in the works, e.g. 18 ... Nc2+ 19 Qxc2 Qa5+ 20 Nd2 Ng3 21 Bd3 Rec8 is unclear (to me, anyway). |
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| Dec-23-22 | | jrredfield: I saw the text move right away, preventing White from castling and compromising his king safety. It appears that there are no other moves that will keep things even for Black. I considered 17 ... Nxb4 or Rec8 but I didn't see any advantages of those moves. I will analyze further but so far it appears that the text move is Black's only hope. |
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| Dec-23-22 | | Mayankk: Given the positioning of Black Queen on the g1-a7 diagonal and Rook on an open e file, 17... Nxf2 strikes as a strong attacking sac, even if all lines are not clear. The Knight sac can't be refused as it forks White Queen and Rook. After 18 Kxf2, we have two choices,. 18 ... Qxe3 19 Ke1 Qf2+ 20 Kd2 and Black seems to run out of forceful ideas. The alternative 18 ... Rxe3 19 Kf2 (Ke1 seems worse as Bishop is pinned) ... Rae1 seems more forceful as the doubled Rooks on e file are very strong while the e2 Bishop is running out of escape squares. Even an ugly 20 Ng8 defence doesn't work after 20 ... Rxe2 21 Nxe2 Bg4 with the Knight pinned. I didn't think of 19 Kg3 escape. It just seemed ugly and desperate. But it was played in the match and White escaped with a draw. So well, I don't know. |
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| Dec-23-22 | | Allderdice83: <Brenin> After 17 ... Nxb4, White has 18 Bd4. After 18 ... Qa5 19 O-O Nc6, Black has won back the pawn, but White has castled and gotten the dark-squared bishop to a good post (and if it's taken, it's a good post for the N) |
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| Dec-23-22 | | mel gibson: I saw the first few plies straight away
but wasn't sure how it would pan out.
It's a draw.
Stockfish 15 says:
17... Nxf2
(17. .. Nxf2 (♘e4xf2 ♔e1xf2 ♖e8xe3 ♔f2-g3 ♖a8-e8 ♖h1-e1 ♖e8-e6 h2-h3 ♗f5-e4 ♕d1-d2 ♖e6-g6+ ♔g3-h2
♕b6-b8+ ♔h2-g1 ♖e3xf3 ♗e2xf3 ♗e4xf3 ♖e1-e2 ♗f3xe2 ♕d2xe2 h7-h6 ♖a1-d1
♕b8-d8 ♔g1-h1 ♘c6-e7 b4-b5 ♕d8-d7 ♕e2-d3 d5-d4 ♗b2xd4 ♖g6-d6 b5-b6 ♘e7-c6
♕d3-b5 ♘c6xd4 ♕b5xd7 ♖d6xd7 b6-b7 ♖d7xb7 ♖d1xd4 ♖b7-a7 ♔h1-h2 ♔g8-h7 h3-h4
h6-h5 ♖d4-f4 ♔h7-g6 ♔h2-h3 f7-f6 ♖f4-b4 ♖a7-a6 ♖b4-d4 ♖a6-a5 ♖d4-b4 ♔g6-h7
♖b4-f4 ♖a5-a6 ♖f4-b4 ♔h7-h6 ♖b4-f4 g7-g5 h4xg5+ f6xg5 ♖f4-b4) +0.23/44 83) score for Black +0.23 depth 44
which is close to a draw. |
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| Dec-23-22 | | King.Arthur.Brazil: Maybe the line: 17...♘xb4 18. axb4 ♕xb4+ 19. ♔f1 ♕xb2 Now, if white tries to recover the ♙ with: 20. ♖xa4 ♘c3! 21. ♖xa8 ♖xa8 and white has no defense against three threats: 22... ♘xd1 or ♕xe2+ or Ta1 which captures the enemy's ♕. You already Know, the King loves it! Therefore, white cannot take back the ♙.
The answer could be 20.Tb1, when although Black has good position, I don't think this is enough to win the game, I guess. Time to check out. |
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| Dec-23-22 | | King.Arthur.Brazil: Following <Brenin>'s line, after: 17...♘xb4 18. ♗d4 ♘c2+ 19. ♕xc2 ♕a5+ 20. ♘d2 ♘g3 21. ♗d3 ♗xd3 22. ♕xd3 ♘xh1 or even ♖ac8(the King prefers) 22. ♕b1 ♗xd3 23. ♕xd3 ♘xh1... Black has winning chances. |
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Dec-23-22
 | | al wazir: What happens after 21. Nd4 ? If 21...Nxd4, then 22. Bxd4. If 21...Rae8, then 22. Ke1 or Kf1 (not 22. Nxf5 Rxe2+ 23. Kf1 Qf2#). Now what? |
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| Dec-23-22 | | stacase: So a ~2400 rated player settled for a tie with a ~2600 rated opponent. Yeah OK I would settle for a tie with a 1600 rated player every day and twice on Sunday. |
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Dec-23-22
 | | An Englishman: Good Evening: Settled for the draw; the alternative looked too unclear and risky. |
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| Dec-23-22 | | saturn2: Went for the follow up with Rxe3 instead of Qe3.
I expected it to be more than a draw. And still I think from a practical point black is better since he has the initiative and white has to play accurately. |
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| Dec-23-22 | | saturn2: There is a Keres Botvinnik Nimzoindian game in the book 'Worldchampions teach chess'. . Like here black starts with developing the queenside, and gets slaughtered quickly. |
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| Dec-23-22 | | Brenin: <al wazir: What happens after 21. Nd4 ? > 21 ... Re4 wins back a piece for Black, e.g. 22 Qd2 Nxd4 23 Bxd4 Rxd4 24 Qe3 Qf6, leaving him a P up with a much better position on account of White's exposed K. |
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| Dec-23-22 | | Cheapo by the Dozen: If Black tries to decline the sacrifice in the only plausible way, i.e. with 18 Qxd5, then 18 ... Qxe3 really does win. |
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Dec-23-22
 | | chrisowen: I move it's bap punk quark it's wig tess fly it's z jah it's duck Nxf2 account mc v doh it's bag cc find axiom jack gotcha hub v buccaneer it's we Nxf2 duff... |
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| Dec-23-22 | | Messiah: <chrisowen: I move it's bap punk quark it's wig tess fly it's z jah it's duck Nxf2 account mc v doh it's bag cc find axiom jack gotcha hub v buccaneer it's we Nxf2 duff...> Fine moderation, as always. |
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Dec-23-22
| | chrisowen: MESSIAH
Had a dream x |
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| Dec-23-22 | | patzerboy: Chrisowen is one of our most reliable posters. I don't think anyone has ever decisively repudiated any post he has ever made. I am reminded of the movie Blazing Saddles. No one could understand the town drunk and his "authentic frontier gibberish," but no one could make the claim that he was wrong, either. Perhaps only the moderators speak Chrisowen's chess patois. He might be our most misunderstood genius. |
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| Dec-23-22 | | Everett: <19� Rae8> preparing to lift to e6-g6 looks promising |
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| Dec-23-22 | | Chesschronicle22: Wait, stockfish says its not a draw..
17...Nxf2 18.Bd4 Nxd4 19.Qxd4 Qxd4 20.Nxd4 Nxh1 21.Nxf5 g6 22.Bb5 gxf5 23.Bxe8 Rxe8 24.Ke2 d4 25.Rxh1 Rxe3+ 26.Kd2 Rxa3 27.Rb1 Ra2+ 28.Kd3 a3 29.Kxd4 Rb2 30.Ra1 Rxb4+ 31.Kc3 Rg4 32.Rxa3 Rxg2 33.Ra5 Rf2 34.Kd4 Kg7 35.Ke3 Rxh2
Weird.� |
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| Dec-23-22 | | agb2002: Black has a bishop and a knight for the bishop pair and a pawn. White is about to castle.
The pawn on f2 protects e3. This suggests 17... Nxf2. However, after 18.Kxf2 neither 18... Qxe3+ 19.Kf1 nor 18... Rxe3 19.Kf1 seem to achieve much. The attempt to take advantage of the defenseless bishop on b2 with 17... Nxb4 loses to 18.Bd4. Other options like 17... Rad8 are met with 18.0-0. I don't know. I'd probably try 17... Nxf2. |
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| Dec-24-22 | | King.Arthur.Brazil: <Chesschronicle22> I thought that 'fishouse' was partial, since there's no reason why will White deliver 2 pieces ♘+♗ by a ♖, giving up his advantage. However, in the given line, White cannot capture the ♘ of h1, without losing his own ♘ too. One line could be: 21. ♘xf5 g6 22. ♘h6+ ♔g7 23. ♘g4 h5 24. ♔d2 hxg4 25. ♖xh1 f5 when Black also has the chance to win. Other lines showed the same. |
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Kibitzing
