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Later Kibitzing> |
Nov-30-24
 | | FSR: The consensus before the match was that it would be a rout by Gukesh. Ding has avoided that and is playing on even terms. In this game it was Gukesh who had to hold the draw. Of course it could still end as a rout by either player. Fischer - Petrosian Candidates Final (1971) and Carlsen - Nepomniachtchi World Championship Match (2021) were also tied after five games. Kasparov - Anand PCA World Championship Match (1995) started with eight draws, and then an Anand win. Fischer, Carlsen, and Kasparov then ran away with those matches. |
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Nov-30-24
 | | Sally Simpson: Hi optimal play:,
The three fold I could see coming was a Rd7 Re7, Rd8+ Re8, Rd7 Re7 type of thing. Thankfully Gukesh is supplying the interest, Ding is bidding his time and will only get involved in a win or lose position. He may not have faith in his board stamina. As someone said this is not a tournament, he only has to win one game more than his opponent, nobody is going overtake him if he takes a series of draws. This of course goes for both players, I've a feeling if Gukesh takes the lead he won't settle on it but go for a 2-0 or 3-0 lead. |
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| Nov-30-24 | | goodevans: <Good choice by Ding. No point in burning himself out trying eek out a win...> You could be right but I share the opinion of most here that he should have tried to hold onto his advantage (slim though it was). Maybe he doesn't have to 'eek out a win' but just hold that small plus whilst avoiding anything too drawish. Maybe then he'd have been gifted further slips from an opponent under pressure. <He may not have faith in his board stamina.> It was only move 29! |
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| Nov-30-24 | | vonKrolock: Karpov - Korchnoi Candidates Final (1974) was another event I followed live (by newspaper news I mean)... it was full of thrilling French Defenses, that was really the tool that allowed Korchnoi to survive as Black in a long séries of draws ... |
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| Nov-30-24 | | whiteshark: <FSR> I could also imagine a list of matches that are pretty even until the end... ;) |
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| Nov-30-24 | | cehertan: Gukesh has not solved his French Defense problem. Bobby Fischer also struggled most against the French. He was lucky to hold as black had a meaningful edge. I predict a return to 1.d4 and perhaps 1.c4 which he often played on the way up. |
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| Nov-30-24 | | Messiah: What a terrible game. |
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Nov-30-24
| | Sally Simpson: Hi Good Evans,
<It was only move 29!> And Ding is recovering from long covid or a nervous breakdown or what ever. A few years back he would put have put Gukesh through hell to save that one but as the last year testifies he has, or hopefully had, issues. If the win was there it was never going to be easy. It could have gone to 60 moves and still a draw. It was his decision. He knows best. |
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Nov-30-24
 | | MarcusBierce: <Thankfully Gukesh is supplying the interest, Ding is bidding his time and will only get involved in a win or lose position. He may not have faith in his board stamina.> Gukesh played the most stodgy line in this game, and Ding played an early ..c5 and ..c4, looking for a fight. |
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| Nov-30-24 | | areknames: All I have to say is this: the Exchange French in a WC match?? Can you imagine Karpov playing that in the 70s? Korchnoi would have sleepwalked to a draw and today Gukesh risked losing. Boy, have times changed. |
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Nov-30-24
 | | Open Defence: <GM Nakamura> cites 23.dxe5 as the problem move 23.Rxe5 Rxe5 24.dxe5 Ne6 25.f4 g6 26.Kf2 Na4 27.Bxa4 Bxa4 
click for larger viewAnd it is quite drawn |
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| Nov-30-24 | | metatron2: <areknames: All I have to say is this: the Exchange French in a WC match?? Can you imagine Karpov playing that in the 70s? Korchnoi would have sleepwalked to a draw and today Gukesh risked losing. Boy, have times changed> In the past, symmetrical exchange openning variations like the Frence exchange or the Exchange Slav were considered very Darwish, almost to a level that black can easily get a draw there if he plays simple logical moves. However, engines changed that view, and today, exchange French, and even more the Exchange Slav are now considered as good options for white. I guess the engines did find a way to use that extra tempo in those symmetrical pawn structs, and black can lose quite comfortably in case he is not accuarate. |
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| Nov-30-24 | | stone free or die: OK, <ChapterName> is a new PGN tag to me, and I thought I've seen 'em all! |
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| Nov-30-24 | | whiteshark: I like the aggressive line-up with opposite castling in this game:
A Pomar vs Alekhine, 1945 pos. after 11... h5
click for larger view |
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| Nov-30-24 | | Everett: 27..Bf5 looks like an improvement |
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| Nov-30-24 | | Petrosianic: <whiteshark>: <The way Ding consistently unwinds a good position into a dead draw endgame is quite remarkable.> It was optically good, but I'm not convinced he ever had much, except the privilege of having to work less hard to stay out of trouble. |
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| Nov-30-24 | | weisyschwarz: What happened? Ding must be embarrassed. Did the rush of moves make him lose concentration? He had a won game, but a few bad moves with N and B, and it was all dissipated. |
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| Nov-30-24 | | dehanne: Ding just wants to retire in peace without making too much of a fool of himself. He just need to make sure he doesn't accidentally win the match. |
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| Nov-30-24 | | Petrosianic: <weisyschwarz>: <He had a won game> He didn't, that's what happened. Whoever told you he had a won game was either kidding, or you misunderstood them. Ding had a non-winning advantage, that's all. He'd have needed more help from Gukesh to win it. He could have squeezed longer, but he never had a win. |
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Nov-30-24
 | | saffuna: <He had a won game, but a few bad moves with N and B, and it was all dissipated.> Huh? When? |
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| Nov-30-24 | | fabelhaft: Play 27. … Rc8 followed by Be6, and Rc8-c5-b5 isn’t easy to meet for white. |
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| Nov-30-24 | | optimal play: <Sally Simpson: Hi optimal play:, The three fold I could see coming was a Rd7 Re7, Rd8+ Re8, Rd7 Re7 type of thing. Thankfully Gukesh is supplying the interest, Ding is bidding his time and will only get involved in a win or lose position. He may not have faith in his board stamina. As someone said this is not a tournament, he only has to win one game more than his opponent, nobody is going overtake him if he takes a series of draws. This of course goes for both players, I've a feeling if Gukesh takes the lead he won't settle on it but go for a 2-0 or 3-0 lead.> If that's Ding's strategy it seems rather odd.
He didn't have a "won game" but he certainly had an advantage until he erred with 29...Bc6 I would've thought in this situation to press your advantage and look for the win if at all possible. And as for board stamina, surely he has to anticipate playing for at least four hours in a world championship game. <dehanne: Ding just wants to retire in peace without making too much of a fool of himself. He just need to make sure he doesn't accidentally win the match.> lol
If he continues to successfully draw games when he has a potentially winning position I might start to believe that. |
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| Dec-01-24 | | whiteshark: “Towards the end of the game, I was very worried about my position after the manoeuvre 27…Be6 followed by 28…Rc8. I was quite relieved when my opponent played 27…Bc6, as I thought it would be a draw” a visibly relieved Gukesh explained in the postgame press conference. The champion acknowledged missing a big opportunity: “I didn’t see the idea with 28…Rc8, I was thinking of moving the king to the kingside, like some kind of Berlin pawn structure. I didn’t realize that it was a big advantage for me.” https://fide.com/news/3329 |
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| Dec-05-24 | | RookFile: 1. e4 was a bluff by Gukesh. He was hoping that Ding Liren would not repeat the French. When he did, it's The Exchange French and let's make a draw. I doubt we'll see 1. e4 from Gukesh again. |
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| Dec-05-24 | | Cassandro: <RookFile> Yes, the French disaster in Game 1 and the almost-disaster in this game ensures that all of Gukesh's 1.e4 plans for this match have gone up in smoke. Well done by Ding and his team (especially Rapport's efforts I gather). |
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