< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 2 OF 2 ·
|Aug-22-03|| ||slimslam: It's a home for the blind in Vojvojdina. |
|Aug-23-03|| ||sleepkid: ...what is Dragoljub's particular claim to fame? Has he been blind for quite some time? Was he a blind chess player even back in the 60's? |
|Oct-22-03|| ||Benjamin Lau: You've got to admire the guy, he plays blindfold games all the time... |
|Oct-23-03|| ||Sneaky: Thumbing through the "Official Rules of Chess" one day, I learned that blind players are allowed a special handicap that no other players are allowed: they can use a special board to the side of the real one, with Braille tiles for pieces. As if that's not enough, the touch rule doesn't apply to them. (Does this mean they can analyze on their Braille set by sliding the tiles around?)|
In any case, the best blind players, like Baretic, spurn this priviledge.
|Oct-23-03|| ||Sneaky: Ah, I see, the touch rule does apply to them, just in a different fashion: <2. On the visually handicapped player's board a piece shall be considered "touched" when it has been taken out of the securing aperture.> http://www.crisscrosstech.com/usbca... |
|Dec-08-05|| ||lentil: intriguing philosophical question... does a blind player 'visualise' the board? i think this question might apply only to players who were born sighted. what about players who were born blind? how do they represent the board in their mind?|
|Dec-08-05|| ||dakgootje: <lentil> Which is about as difficult to answer as how they 'see' things, or for them imagine how humans or animals would look like. Maybe they 'see' things as being emotions or as cold and hot and such things so its even possible they would consider water as visible as a gust of wind. Who knows? The only one who knows are the people who are born blind, however i would imagine that it would be hard for them to make clear how they 'see' the world. Maybe we'll have to wait for the moment that we can cure people from blindness. Maybe a little the same as people who have extra connections from a sense-organ in their brains to an other. Exempli gratia: People who can taste the colour blue. I imagine its hard for those people to describe what they see, feel, taste, whatever too|
|Dec-08-05|| ||drmariogodrob: <lentil> In October's (I think it was October's) issue of Chess Life, Andrew Soltis (I think it was Andy) had an interesting article about this. Of course, it was from his perspective as a sighted person who plays blindfold exhibitions from time to time, in reflecting about how he visualizes a game when he can't see it. In the game board of your mind, do you see 'knight', or do you just see 'the motions of a knight'? Most interesting is what this causes us to have to think about in our own play even when not playing blindfolded and just looking through variations. The major difference of course is that in this, you can always look at the board to remember where you're starting from, but after that, a lot of the same skills are at play. Anyway, get your hands on the article, if you can.|
|May-21-06|| ||Eggman: <<Maybe we'll have to wait for the moment that we can cure people from blindness.>>|
Unfortunately, it seems that this can never happen, for a person who is born without sight would not develop the corresponding part of the brain responsible for sight (the occipital lobe). Thus even if one could give sight to their eyes their brain couldn't process it.
|May-21-06|| ||technical draw: "I see, said the blind man, as he picked up his hammer and saw."|
|May-21-06|| ||dakgootje: <Eggman> true, i did read that in the newspaper some time ago (was about sleeping and there was a small part in it that the appropriate parts of the brains dont develop as they have to be if not used). Shame i hadnt read it when i posted my previous comment, but after all, thats some time ago...|
|May-21-06|| ||McCool: Not very man draws for this man.|
|Feb-26-07|| ||Jonathan Sarfati: <drmariogodrob> When I play blindfold chess, it is just as you describe. I don't visualize a stylized castle for a rook, but something on the square that radiates orthogonally, etc.|
|Feb-26-07|| ||Jonathan Sarfati: <dakgootje> From an interview with a young woman who has been totally blind as long as she can remember (http://www.magazine.utoronto.ca/03a...):|
Still wondering about how she perceives colours, I ask her to describe burgundy. She turns the question around and asks me to do it. I’m stumped; I can no more describe burgundy than she can. McQuigge can’t verbalize what burgundy means to her, but she knows what it goes with. “My impressions of colour can never be either validated or discredited,” she says. “They work for me.”
|Feb-27-07|| ||dakgootje: Thanks Jonathan for that article, very enjoyable to read at parts! =)|
<In other classes, she relies purely on her hearing. I’m curious – has she ever nodded off in a class? “Oh God, yes!” she says. “Lack of visual stimuli.… I’ve totally fallen asleep. It’s embarrassing as all hell.”> =D
Still, SHE has an excuse to fall asleep during classes... ;-)
One can not describe color to blind people nor can they describe how they look at color because of the lack of material to compare your 'observation' with, leaving whether you are capable of seeing or not. Maybe it is possible to let a blind people think of a certain color the way they see it, look at the place of brainactivity to see if it is possible to 'translate' to for us understandable things, however this probably won't work visa versa.
The problem is that it is impossible to describe for instance yellow: It is a light color. Or more physical: It has this or that wave-lenght. Errrr, right, does that help a blind person? I think not so. Better to combine colors to emotions? Black makes me sad while yellow brightens one up... But different people have different emotical associations with different colors. Besides it's still pretty vague to learn a color with the information it makes you happy... Why can't the whole world be yellow than eh?
|Mar-27-09|| ||onaananekadruga: could anybody get me in touch with dragoljub baretic please?|
|Apr-14-09|| ||whiteshark: Considered as one of the strongest blind players ever.|
Olympiad participations: http://www.olimpbase.org/playersbl/... (see his score there!)
|Apr-14-09|| ||Benzol: I wonder how many blind players have games in the database?|
There's a possible collection idea here.
Here's another two blind players in action T J Free vs M Winkelmann, 1975
|Apr-14-09|| ||vonKrolock: what about this: <"Source: The Illustrated London News, Sept 8, 1883|
America is a world of wonders. The latest addition to its list of these is a <"deaf and blind poet,"> named Morison, who, says the Picayune, has been astonishing the New Orleans people by defeating the most skillful chess players. "He has a board on which the men stand fitted into sockets, and with his hands he feels the field, by the sense of touch alone watching the movements of the enemy, forming his combinations against him, analysing the most intricate situations, and coming off victorious most of the time.">
|Apr-14-09|| ||whiteshark: Don't miss --> Sergey Krylov|
|Mar-16-18|| ||piltdown man: Have you seen his new house?
Neither has he.
|Jan-27-19|| ||jith1207: I searched for his name in Vojvojdina and met with the sad news that he has passed away in March last year.|
This profile needs to be updated.
|Jan-27-19|| ||jith1207: A nice biography of him is given in the link, Rest in Peace.|
|Jan-27-19|| ||jith1207: "As the combination in chess represents a triumph of spirit over matter, and chess, although I define it as a voluntary torture point in the brain, I consider it a way that helped me to, although handicapped, achieve happiness and achieve my human mission: to be accepted, respected and respected successful among people of healthy vision ".|
|Jan-30-19|| ||zanzibar: Here is the bio/obit given by <jith1207>, google translated:|
In memoriam Dragoljub Baretić
03/23/2018 / FM Notarosh, Krasoje (2199)
IN MEMORIAM DRAGOLJUB BARETIĆ (1936-2018)
On Wednesday, March 21, after a long illness at the age of 82, Dragoljub Baretić , the Novi Sad FIDE master and one of the best blind chess players of all time , passed away .
He was born in Svilojev near Apatin 4.04.1936. and he did not live there for a long time because his father was a railway worker and they often moved. When his father died in 1939, his grandmother took him to the village of Baretići in Dalmatia, where he remained until the end of the war. By a tragic event, he lost his sight in 1944, touching the backing of the Italian bomb, which scattered his left hand with his hand. After recovering, his mother took him to Belgrade, where she was severely tortured by nine children.
Although at the age of eight he was left unattended, he successfully completed his education and obtained a college degree and, above all, educated very universally. After finishing high school, he settled in Novi Sad where he remained until his death. He worked as a history teacher at the University of Radnicki, and then as an expert associate at the Provincial Conference of the Blind, where he was retired in 1992. He published several books of poetry, and launched magazines for the blind "Vidici" and "Odjek". He left behind his wife Zora, daughter Gordana and two grandchildren - Ivo and Miloš. It should be noted in particular that he had a large number of friends and respecters and that it was a pleasure to talk to him about chess as well as other topics.
Coming to Novi Sad began his brilliant chess career, and accordingly, Baja, as his friends called him, was the longest remembered. He learned chess at a special school for the blind in Zemun, and he actively participated in all official competitions in Novi Sad. He quickly broke into the very top of the best chess players of Novi Sad and Vojvodina, and in the competition of "shabby" chess players, as he called the video, he was twice the champion of Novi Sad and the champion of Vojvodina. Chess Master became 1971 and won the FIDE Master's Degree in 1979. He successfully performed for numerous chess clubs: Napredak (Belgrade), Itis (NS), Uljmanski ŠK, Novosadski ŠK (several times in the First League) and the last three decades for the Novi Sad-based ŠK blind "Anpassan".
In the competition of blind and visually impaired, he was unmatched. He was six times the champion of Yugoslavia. He played for the national team from 1961 to 1980 and won five Olympic medals - three gold and two silver. At the World Championship in Bruges in 1978 he won a bronze medal. He also won ten top-ranked tournaments in the spectrum of the spectacular chess players. During his career, he played 15 batches with "mugs" and scored eight points, which is also an admiration. Baretić played sharp and combined chess and left behind dozens of beautiful parties that are published in magazines around the world. And in the end we mean his thoughts about the chess he said in one of his last appearances in the media: '
"As the combination in chess represents a triumph of spirit over matter, and chess, although I define it as a voluntary torture point in the brain, I consider it a way that helped me to, although handicapped, achieve happiness and achieve my human mission: to be accepted, respected and respected successful among people of healthy vision ".
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