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Jul-04-21 | | Alan McGowan: Berger says Hugo played at Koeln 1898, but reports in the Deutsche Schachzeitung, Wiener Schachzeitung and Neue Hamburger Nachrichten show P. Bodenstein (Berlin) being the participant at Koeln 1898. Of course it doesn't help that H. and P. Bodenstein were both with Pionier Bataillons and that both moved through the ranks of Leutnant and Hauptmann; their place in a tournament was sometimes reported by their military rank. Another reference to H. Bodenstein is in the Wiener Schachzeitung 1905 (p32), which reported on a tournament for the army. It mentions that he had been playing for about nine years. |
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Jul-04-21 | | Alan McGowan: Further research re Paul Bodenstein (whose full name at birth was Wilhelm Karl Paul Bodenstein), continuing from the Berger reference by <Chessist>. 1891 marriage - Leutnant in Pionier Bataillon Nr. 17. 1892 birth of a daughter - same rank, same unit. 1893 birth of a daughter - same trank, same unit. 1898 birth of a son in January - Leutnant in Pionier Bataillon Nr. 3. Living in Spandau, though I am not (yet) able to decipher the street name. A search for Hugo Bodenstein in ancestry records brings nothing relevant - no birth, no military references, no marriage. |
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Jul-04-21 | | Chessist: Whoever doesn't exist in ancestry records has never lived?! |
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Jul-06-21 | | Alan McGowan: The absence of official records invites curiosity. Gaige came across the name Hugo Bodenstein - perhaps in Berger's Schach-Jahrbuch 1899-1900, but he failed to find anything to substantiate his existence. Berger - so far - is the only reference to show 'Hugo'. However, he said the subject played at Koeln 1898, but reports about that tournament give P. Bodenstein (Berlin). In 1898 Paul Bodenstein's address was Sch?nwalder Strasse 111, Spandau. Berger also said that 'Hugo' was in Pionier Bataillon Nr 3; it can be shown that in 1898 Paul Bodenstein was attached to that unit, as given on his son's birth record. So, if Berger got it wrong about 'Hugo' playing at Koeln 1898, perhaps he also was wrong about the given name of the subject. I note that CG says that Hugo was born 1880; if so, could he have played at Barmen 1895, as mentioned by Berger? Deutsche Schachzeitung references to that event give Lieutenant Bodenstein and Herr Bodenstein. Paul Bodenstein was born 1864. The history of the Berliner Schachgesellschaft 1827-1927 has numerous references to a member named Bodenstein. No name or initial is ever shown, which suggests there was only one member of that name. The Deutsche Schachzeitung 1910, reporting on the Winter Tournament of the Schachgesellschaft, refers to Hauptmann Bodenstein. In regard to the Hamburg 1910 tournaments, the club history mentions the names of some of their members who attended the congress, including Bodenstein. The DSz 190, p224 mentions Bodenstein (Grunewald), though on p232 it shows H. Bodenstein (Berlin). The 1910 Berlin Address Book shows Hauptmann Paul Bodenstein at Caspar Theiss Str. 16 III (Post Grunewald). A later address - in 1914 and 1915 - was Behnitz Str 3, Spandau. There are further references to H. Bodenstein in connection with a tournament for army personnel in early 1905. Several Vienna newspapers and the Wiener Schachzeitung all refer to Hauptmann H. Bodenstein. They also all mention that he has been playing for nine or ten years and that his name has appeared in several Hauptturniers. P. Bodenstein-Berlin played at Leipzig 1894 and Lieutenant Bodenstein played at Barmen 1895. Again, if there was a Hugo born 1880, could he have been participating in these events at age 14 or 15? If so, the name would have been better known. It appears that these references to H. Bodenstein might have simply been confusion, perhaps caused by Berger's naming of 'Hugo'. |
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Jul-06-21
 | | Tabanus: Hugo B. is so rare in Anc. com it may well be he didn't exist. From https://www.forum-3dcenter.org/vbul..., <Q: K?rzen wir Herr mit H. oder Hr. ab?> A: <Ich pers?nlich will immer H. schreiben.> |
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Jul-06-21 | | Chessist: <I note that CG says that Hugo was born 1880>. An indication with no value. Copied from Megabase where often enough years of birth are simply estimated without any source being available. Sorry, but this is not the basis for a serious discussion. |
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Jul-06-21
 | | Dionysius1: I'm impressed, seriously, with how much about a person's life you can find out. I'm curious about why. It feels to me like having them dance before us, after they're in their grave. Is that not disrespectful? |
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Jul-07-21
 | | Stonehenge: Less disrespectful than completely forgetting them, I'd say. |
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Jul-07-21
 | | jessicafischerqueen:
Chess players are of interest to only a few, but those few appreciate accurate historical data. It is most respectable for a historian to get the facts straight. Disrespect likes in promoting the tall tales that characterized all too much of chess "history." |
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Jul-07-21
 | | MissScarlett: <Is that not disrespectful?> On a website dedicated to chess history? Sir, are you not an idiot? |
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Jul-07-21
 | | Dionysius1: No, I'm not. Chess history, personal history of chess players, surely there's a difference. Madam, are you a simpleton? |
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Jul-07-21
 | | MissScarlett: Since when does history neglect biography? |
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Jul-07-21 | | Z truth 000000001: <Since when does history neglect biography?> On <CG> quite often. |
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Jul-08-21
 | | Tabanus: http://www.digitalniknihovna.cz/mzk... = two Bodenstein games in "Besedy lidu" (Praha). One game from Berlin 1900 has "H. Bodenstein", the other from Nuremberg 1906 has "P. Bodenstein, Mety". |
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Jul-08-21 | | Alan McGowan: The Tijdschrift van den Nederlandschen Schaakbond, jrg 8, 1900, no 6, 01-06-1900 reports on the winter tournament of the Berlin Schachgesellschaft. H. Caro was 1st with 9 points, P. Bodenstein scored 5?. The Wiener Schachzeitung 1906, p276, has P. Bodenstein (Metz) at Nuremberg. |
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Jul-08-21
 | | Tabanus: https://anno.onb.ac.at/anno-suche#s... is the five Bodenstein + Schach in ANNO. I think the one from 1905 says H. Bodenstein has played very little the last 10 years. |
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Jul-08-21 | | Jean Defuse: ...
<1895> '30th Foundation Festival in Barmen' in the clubhouse Hotel Rodewig on September 14th and 15th. <Lieutenant P. BODENSTEIN * won the master tournament>. * Bodenstein was stationed in Metz in 1905, in the same year he played at the main tournament A in Barmen. (But DSZ April 1905, p. 127 has Hauptmann H. Bodenstein (Metz) ...) see: Geschichte des SV 03/25 Koblenz - http://www.svkoblenz.de/content/dow... . DSZ Oct. 1895, p. 321: 'Aus Barmen ... In den Meistergruppen erzielten die Herren Paulsen, Lieutenant Bodenstein und Amtsrichter Schwan die gleichen hoechsten Gewinnpunkte.' ... |
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Jul-08-21
 | | Tabanus: https://anno.onb.ac.at/cgi-content/..., Google transl. (modified): In contrast to the defensive play of Kuershner and Ullmann is the bold, daring attacking play of the Prussian Hauptmann H. Bodenstein, whose name has been mentioned several times among (under?) the winners in German Hauptturniers. But Bodenstein has had very little playing practice for about 9 years, which explains his relative failure (5th prize winner). Apparently meaning he had several good results before abt. 1896. |
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Jul-08-21
 | | Tabanus: https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bernh... says <Bernard Bodenstein> was "Polizeipr?sident von Metz und Hauptmann beim Stab des Milit?rpolizeimeisters" in 1915-1917. He was born 1876 in Stieringen (Stiering-Wendel), which is about 60 km from Metz. |
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Jul-08-21 | | Alan McGowan: I have the following early events:-
1894 Leipzig Hauptturnier - P. Bodenstein (Berlin). D. Wochenschach 1894, p318.1895 Barmen - Lieutenant Bodenstein and Herr Bodenstein. DSZ 1895, p321 1897 Berlin Schachgesellschaft Winter Tournament - Pr.-Lieut. Bodenstein. DSZ 1897, p345. 1898 Koeln - P. Bodenstein (Berlin)
Bodenstein (no name or initial) also played in the Schachgesellschaft Winter Tournaments 1898/99 and 1899/1900. I did not find any tournament references between then and 1905. A further search in ANNO (Bodenstein, schachturnier) shows a detailed page from Sport und Salon, 21 January 1905, which includes a photograph of the competitors. Someone with a good knowledge of German might find some further snippet of information in there.
https://anno.onb.ac.at/cgi-content/... |
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Jul-08-21 | | Chessist: Deutsche Schachzeitung, Nov. 1896, back cover:
German Chess Federation membership in August 1896: II. Individual members
...
Bodenstein, Hugo, Prem.-Leutnant, Coeln, Member since 6/7. 96. The given year of birth 1880 is obviously wrong. |
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Jul-09-21 | | Chessist: Therefore "Hugo" is not a Berger invention.
Needed: a file on his military career. |
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Jul-12-21 | | Alan McGowan: Part 1 of 2
Further to discussions about Paul and Hugo Bodenstein (thanks to all who contributed), I have been looking through the following sources: 1) Germany & Austria, Directories of Military and Marine Officers, 1600-191 and 2) Germany, Military and Marine Weekly Publications, 1816-1942. It is usual for only the family name and rank to be given, except in special cases. A search for Hugo Bodenstein gave 0 results. A search for Paul Bodenstein gave 1 result. This was a special case: two officers with the same name and rank serving in the same unit in the same city at the same time. Hauptmann Karl and Hauptmann Paul Bodenstein were serving with Ingenieur Inspektion 4 at Metz, 1907. (This relevant to 1905 and 1906 tournament reports.) A service date for Paul was provided ? 14.9.00 ? the date of his promotion to Hauptmann. This piece of information, along with the detailed information from marriage and birth records ? rank, unit, base station, home address ?allowed for Paul Bodenstein?s military career to be tracked. I chose to begin in 1891, when he married (this is also relevant to a 1920 finding). In 1891 Paul Bodenstein was a Leutnant in Pionier Bataillon 17, based in Stettin but with a Berlin home address. In 1893 he was temporarily attached to Inspection of Military Telegraph, Berlin, as P.L. and Adj., and in 1894 Pr. Lt. Bodenstein was transferred to Ingenieur Inspektion 3. An 1895 entry shows that he was stationed at Koeln, and he was still there in the 1896 and 1897 entries. A relevant CG submission about this time was:
Jul-08-21 Chessist: Deutsche Schachzeitung, Nov. 1896, back cover:
German Chess Federation membership in August 1896: II. Individual members
...
Bodenstein, Hugo, Prem.-Leutnant, Coeln, Member since 6/7. 96. There was only one Prem. Leutnant Bodenstein in the Koeln unit at the time, Paul Bodenstein. By 1898 Paul Bodenstein was a Prem. Leutnant with Pionier Bataillon 3 at Spandau, Berlin. He remained with this unit through 1899, by which time he is shown as Oblt (Oberleutnant). Another relevant CG submission:
Jul-03-21 Chessist: Berger, Schach-Jahrbuch fuer 1899-1900, p. 108: "Bodenstein, Hugo, Oberleutnant im 3. Pionier-Bat. in Spandau. Einzelmitglied d. deutschen Schachbundes; H Barmen 95 II get., H Koeln 1898." There was only one Oblt. Bodenstein in the unit at the time, and that was Paul (there was also a Hauptmann Bodenstein). Also, it has already been pointed out that reports on the Koeln 1898 congress showed P. Bodenstein (Berlin) as one of the entrants. His game against Exner at that event was published in several places and was used as part of the report on P. Bodenstein?s death in the Deutsche Schachblaetter 1934. In 1900 Paul Bodenstein was promoted to Hauptmann and began serving with Pionier Bataillon 18 at Koenigsberg. He remained there through 1903. In 1904 he was transferred to Ingenieur Inspektion 4, based at Metz. He remained there through 1908. During that period there were reports of a chess tournament for the army in Vienna in 1905 that mentioned a Prussian Hauptmann H. Bodenstein. And the Deutsche Schachzeitung 1905, p127 referred to Hauptmann H. Bodenstein (Metz). During 1905 and 1906 there was only Hauptmann Bodenstein at Metz, and that was Paul In 1908 Paul Bodenstein was transferred to the Ingenieur Komitee in Berlin. He remained in this post through 1910, during which time there are references to Hauptmann Bodenstein playing the Winter Tournaments of the Berliner Schachgesellschaft 1908/09 and 1909/10 (Deutsche Schachzeitung 1909, p88 and 1910, p218), and the Schachgesellschaft championship of 1910/11 (Neue Schlesische Zeitung, 14 Jan 1911). |
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Jul-12-21 | | Alan McGowan: Part 2 of 2
HAMBURG 1910?Hauptturnier
The history of the Berliner Schachgesellschaft 1827-1927 (p106) mentions some of their members who played at Hamburg 1910, including ?Bodenstein?. The Deutsche Schachzeitung 1910 (p224) gives Bodenstein (Grunewald). The 1910 Berlin Address Book P239 of the surname section) shows Paul Bodenstein, hauptm. Mitglied i. Ingen. Komite, Schmargendf, Caspar Thei? Str 16 III (Post Grunewald). However, there is a return to confusion on p232 of the 1910 DSZ, in which the crosstable seems to show H. Bodenstein; and the Wiener Schachzeitung 1910, p338, states that H. Bodenstein (Spandau) was at Hamburg. Serious consideration should be given to the possibility that games attributed to Hugo Bodenstein at this event were played by Paul Bodenstein. In 1911 Bodenstein was promoted to Major and transferred to Ingenieur Inspektion 2. In 1917 he transferred to Ing. Offiz and in 1918, by now an Oberst (Colonel), he retired. OTHER GAMES IN CG
1900: I don?t have anything relevant in my library, but a Google Books search shows a few references to the Hoefer-P. Bodenstein game; played in January 1900 in the Berliner Schachgesellschaft. Paul Bodenstein was still in Berlin at this time, his promotion to Hauptmann being announced in the 26 May (extra edition) of the Milit?r Wochenblatt. 1920 BERLIN ? Hauptturnier
The tournament book for the German Chess Federation Congress shows Bodenstein (Freiburg) in a Hauptturnier. The Berliner B?rsenzeitung of 31 January 1920, p6, column 5 discusses a company listed under number 3671. The partners include Elisabeth Bodenstein, born Felisch, then in Freiburg i. B. (im Breisgau). This was Paul Bodenstein?s wife, whom he married in 1891. It also states: Dem Paul Bodenstein in Freiburg i.B. ist Prokura erteilt. (Power of Attorney, I think.) It appears, therefore, that Paul Bodenstein, normally resident in Berlin, was temporarily in Freiburg, helping his wife and other members of her family with a business they had inherited. Therefore, the Brinckmann-Hugo Bodenstein game from this tournament seems to be wrongly attributed. Paul Bodenstein continued to appear in Berliner Schachgesellschaft events right up to shortly before his death. He played in the Berlin Championship for 1922 and 1930, the 1924 Th?ringer Congress, and he won the 5th Brandenburg Congress in 1927. He may not have been a master of the first rank, but he deserves to be properly acknowledged and his games to be properly attributed. The mention of Hugo Bodenstein in the DSZ 1896 and the Berger Schachjahrbuch 1899-1900 seem to have been responsible for later references to ?H. Bodenstein?. After all, the DSZ, which said Hugo was the federation member, correctly gave the rank and Koeln base for Paul Bodenstein, and Berger, who wrongly said Hugo played at Koeln 1898, did correctly note the rank and military unit for Paul Bodenstein. Also posted to biographer's bistro. |
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Jul-12-21 | | Chessist: I am impressed. |
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