<tga: Again, the data show just the opposite.

I've been focused on the topic of my cousin getting to marry her wife. >

That is simply not true. But we'll get to that.

<tga: In reply you moved the goalposts to <We've lost men in your little girl's bathroom too. >

<PP> moved the goalposts to <having their small businesses destroyed> etc. >

You are falsely pretending that the only thing you referenced was your cousin marrying. The King's English fails me. <keypusher> has a 9 letter word starting with "h" that I think applies here. But, let's look at "the data", shall we?

<tga: the Republican Party seems more fascist to me than the Democratic Party>

<tpstar: And the Democratic Party seems more intolerant to me than the Republican Party. See for yourself how "Gays For Trump" get treated.>

Conclusion: <tpstar> challenged your assertion about the relative Fascismness of the 2 major parties. You started it, he responded. Likewise, me and <PP>.

<tga: A great example of the sexual fascism of the Right! Why is my cousin's personal life their business? >

Duhhh, because you brought it forth in a public forum in an attempt to sway people to your position!

That's very benevolent of you <tpstar> but sincere condolences are best expressed to those who knew Justine personally. And of course there is concern and empathy for the general community in Minneapolis.

The mainstream media in the US may not want to cover the story, but the atrocity has been headline news down here because Justine is an Aussie. Even the prime minister has weighed in on the matter and the Australian consulate covering Minnesota has been in touch with her family.

Her senseless death stands as a warning against tokenism, and placing inappropriate persons in positions of power and authority in some misguided effort to 'diversify' institutions within society.

The information broadcast down here is that the murderer should never have been given a badge and gun but was made a policeman just for the purpose of having a Somali Muslim on the force.

Without any of that juvenile nonsense, we can see already that an environment of excellence is being fostered here by all of the very good posters.

You probably didn't notice, but I, your trusty moderator, have been diligently attending to my duty of keeping the undesirables out. I'm deleting posts that seek to disrupt and spoil the elite poster vibe (deleted a lot of them already!).

Thanks for doing this.>

And

< TheFocus: Finally!! Thanks <Big Pawn> for doing this. Your Forum is a welcome thing.

I had already decided to stop posting at <Rogoff>. Now we have a place to go without dealing day after day with idiots and the dregs of the site.>

Thanks, and you're welcome <tga> and <focus>. I used to just use my forum to discuss only what I wanted, but now I've opened it up so that the Elite Posters can stretch out and share their insights and wisdom.

I've been watching, with dismay, how you guys (and <bobsterman>) have been forced to grapple with the panhandlers of the site in order to *try* and have an interesting, controversial, debate or discussion and I kept shaking my head.

For instance, when I saw <bobsterman> have to deal with nonsense about Trump's daughter (when she was 12), and about some photo of Trump playing tennis, I knew it was time to change things up and give the Elite Posters a place to exercise their muscular intelligence, nimble wit and valuable insights. This can't happen at the food fight page with the remedial class holding court (crayons up the nose, eyelids turned inside out, standing on the desk, carrying on etc...).

There's an immeasurable amount of hysteria on the Rogoff forum, and it appears to consist of uncritical thinkers who abandon themselves to the relentless tides of careless, if not misleading, mainstream media reporting.

It's so refreshing to dialogue with honest posters who enjoy a genuine exchange of ideas and alternative viewpoints rather than be slandered and derided by fools and ignoramuses trolling over at Rogoff who are unable to rebut an argument.

I certainly won't be going back to Rogoff and I expect once all the 'Elite Posters' have abandoned that forum and moved over here, Rogoff will become nothing more than a lunatic asylum overrun by the inmates.

They'll be telling themselves how they ran us off the forum and proclaiming "I won" to each other as they post links to vile pictures and disgusting videos, all the while descending further and further into insanity at which point they'll turn on each other with such viciousness that chessgames will have no choice other than to shut down the Rogoff forum altogether.

Anyway <Big Pawn>, you're absolutely right in that finally "the Elite Posters can stretch out and share their insights and wisdom."

That's a reasonable view, IMO.

<I am respectfully challenging your original premise that conservatives are "fascist" while liberals are "tolerant" as lately college campuses are littered with blatant intolerance toward dissenting viewpoints. >

<thegoodanarchist> May I ask if your cousin and her partner would have been satisfied with simply having their relationship certified as a 'civil union' rather than insisting it be a 'marriage'?>

Good question, <OP>! I wish I'd thought to ask it myself.

You are falsely pretending that the only thing you referenced was your cousin marrying. >

I am not falsely pretending anything. I debate in good faith, however it seems to me you are quite often defensive, reading things into other people's posts that aren't there.

I think you are not looking at the discussion carefully at all.

My <general conclusion> was that the GOP is more fascist than the Dems. The example I cited, about gay marriage, was just that, an example, and that *particular* example then became the anchor for the discussion that followed.

And it is within that discussion that followed where you brought up men in the ladies room, someone else brought up people losing their businesses, etc.

But I don't acknowledge that those can all be lumped together. I certainly wasn't trying to defend or propose *any* of those other things, and it was not me who brought those issues up, in the context of a discussion on gay marriage.

In other words, I was trying to focus on one *specific* topic. You and others tried to lump *multiple* topics together, and when I didn't agree to that you started in with your personal attack.

Instead of getting angry and making personal attacks, why not bring up the specific example you want to discuss, WITHOUT conflating it with the specific example I want to discuss?

The rest of your post is a continuation of your desire to get into a personal attack against me, based on your misinterpretation of the thread.

Also, <Patzer2> is a most esteemed, very good, elite poster who contributed in excellent form, always, at the <rogoff> forum but eventually left when it descended into inanity. I hope <Patzer2> can find a debate or two on this forum.>

<BP>, I encourage you to keep stopping by Rogoff from time to time, to invite other folks to the discussion.

Good question, <OP>! I wish I'd thought to ask it myself.>>

In other words, to keep getting the word out, that there is an alternative page for debate, where we don't have to daily cover the topic of what color Donald Trump is, and other nonsense.>

Yes, I will do that.

I've been reading along here and by now I usually jump in, but for a change it's nice to sit back and just see how the debates unfold without my input. It's very interesting.

I think the word fascist is being used a bit freely, as a rhetorical device, and I think <tpstar's> challenge to you, <tga>, is most interesting, although you reminded him that that was not the original premise. Still, picking up on his challenge seems to be a logical place to go.

In terms of <personal attacks> between <ohio> and <tga>, I think you guys are still within the bounds of elevated discussion and encourage you to continue speaking to the point brought up by one another.

The four squirrels of President Obama's legacy are Syria, Obamacare, transgender bathrooms, and the $20 Trillion national debt. I expect that we will see Supreme Court term limits someday as payback for Justice Sonia Sotomayor and Justice Elena Kagan legislating from the bench like this. Please consider how eager liberal pundits were to praise President Obama for "getting same sex marriage done" even though he had long opposed it.

<that is not my original premise. The whole thread got started by diceman, when he decried fascism from the left. I did not dispute that this exists. My point was that I see it from the Right *also*> My apologies for misconstruing your debate. As we have seen over the last eight years, the Far Left is just as bad as the Far Right.

<Trump: After consultation with my Generals and military experts, please be advised that the United States Government will not accept or allow transgender individuals to serve in any capacity in the U.S. Military. Our military must be focused on decisive and overwhelming victory and cannot be burdened with the tremendous medical costs and disruption that transgender in the military would entail. Thank you.>

This is big news. We are getting our America back. Drag queens need our help and our prayers. The way I see it, they are not well. A drag queen is on the level of someone that walks around naked under their raincoat and flashes people on the subway. Harmless, in a way (I guess), but not right.

What exactly does this signal? For one, it's a decisive blow against political correctness, and this is one of the main reasons I support Trump. I think that political correctness needs to be destroyed as it plays a huge role in undermining everything that is right and good about American society. Political correctness is the glue that keeps the insanity raging on and on. Without political correctness, the left will fall apart and we can return to common sense, morality and the traditional American spirit.

Sorry, but that is not my original premise. The whole thread got started by <diceman>, when he decried fascism from the left.>

Since my marriage between a man and woman fascism, resulted in same sex marriage.

Free fair media fascism, resulted in 93% Trump negative stories a day.

Free education fascism, resulted in leftist owned schools where “freedom/liberty/inclusive” riots flourish at the thought of hearing a conservative idea/speaker.

Equal justice under the law fascism, resulted in a DOJ where lawbreakers like Clinton, leakers like Comey, colluders like Comey, Clinton, Lynch, walk, and Trump is investigated for “undocumented” crimes.

My small government fascism, resulted in a multi trillion dollar, government owned, underclass

My free market healthcare fascism, resulted in the lie known as Obamacare.

My freedom/liberty fascism, resulted in mandates, laws, 10's of thousands of pages of tax code, and phone calls, emails, stored on a server.

For instance if a baby is born with sight that is normal but if a baby is born blind that is normal too! However a baby born with 3 eyes is abnormal.

Thank you. >

Your post, while serious, is not substantive enough. You need to add your own thoughts, your own insights and you need to explain clearly why you agree with the first or second premise and why you don't agree with the other one. You can't expect everyone to be up-to-date on the moral argument.

You can't just pop a question here; you have the rest of the website for that.

It's not enough to be polite and refrain from nonsense. You need to be thoughtful, accurate and clear.

I will let your post live in the comment, but in the future you need to aim higher or I will delete your comments, even if nice and polite.