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M61MG Wrestler
Member since Jun-28-09 · Last seen Nov-05-14
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   M61MG Wrestler has kibitzed 26 times to chessgames   [more...]
   Nov-05-14 M61MG Wrestler chessforum (replies)
 
M61MG Wrestler: ==== <James Demery> The link has been updated to this one: Robert James Fischer As the owners of this website clean up the old trash, the links above get broken. You called on an investigation of the M61MG book's legitmacy, and Trice's puppet <hackmate> made up a
 
   Jun-16-14 Viktor Korchnoi (replies)
 
M61MG Wrestler: <petrosianic: a few words that Fischer didn't even say (see "My 61 Memorable Games Hoax"). > http://www.chessgames.com/perl/ches... .
 
   Sep-27-12 Adams vs Gelfand, 2012 (replies)
 
M61MG Wrestler: Whereas Adams is seventh place....he needs to try harder. :)
 
   Feb-15-12 Bobby Fischer (replies)
 
M61MG Wrestler: <♗=== UGH ===♗> <Joshka: <rannewman> Those notes were collected and written over decades, and according to reports I've read, they measure some 22 inches high stacked on top of one another! The bootlegged book was printed in Iceland 2007. IM Larry ...
 
   Jun-23-11 jessicafischerqueen chessforum (replies)
 
...
 
   Aug-12-09 chessgames.com chessforum (replies)
 
M61MG Wrestler: In my profile I am having difficulty getting certain lines to separate, without adding a blank line in between. How can I ensure that a line of text starts on a new line? Here is an example that DOES NOT SEPARATE with a carriage return: Evans 1st M61MG Article ...
 
   Jul-25-09 Kibitzer's Café (replies)
 
M61MG Wrestler: ♗/////NO ONE BANNED\\\\\ ♗ Reminder to all: If you want to discuss or investigate the book "My 61 Memorable Games", I invite you to visit my chessforum. Other sites on the internet may not allow the discussion from all users that takes place on my forum.
 
   Jul-25-09 Shirov vs R Panjwani, 2009 (replies)
 
M61MG Wrestler: ♗/////NO ONE BANNED\\\\\ ♗ If you want to discuss or investigate the book "My 61 Memorable Games", I invite your to visit my chessforum, on which no CG.COM user is banned from participating. Other sites on the internet may not allow the discussion that takes ...
 
   Jul-03-09 H Olafsson vs P Smirnov, 2008 (replies)
 
M61MG Wrestler: ♗////LINKS NEEDED\\\\♗ I'm looking for good links to headline the "Uncovering the Truth" page. See the short kibitz history on my forum. Improvements solicited, and most welcome.
 
   Jun-29-09 chancho chessforum (replies)
 
M61MG Wrestler: New location for discussing "My 61 Mem Games", including all* previous posts on that topic from Mrs. Alekhine's forum. Click my Avatar to join in. Anyone is welcome. *some pruning has occurred on irrelevant posts.
 
(replies) indicates a reply to the comment.

Uncovering the Truth About M61MG

Kibitzer's Corner
< Earlier Kibitzing  · PAGE 10 OF 54 ·  Later Kibitzing>
May-01-09  GeauxCool: <Result: Any support for theory that Fischer was behind the book due to money problems IS HEREBY DEBUNKED.>

The note suggests that Bobby believed that he was in financial trouble at some point previous to the publication of M61. This lends support for the theory that Fischer was behind the book due to money problems.

The letters from the bank and Iceland, etc., are demonstrating that reality conflicted with Bobby's perception. So what? Its his belief that counts.

How's your timeline going by the way?

May-01-09  Jim Bartle: "<ET>'s email said that the printer has sent him Fischer's manuscript since they needed help deciphering it."

This is becoming a ritual...The printer does not care what the manuscript says! They print what they are sent. It is the publisher who might need help deciphering it.

May-01-09  PinnedPiece: <JB: .The printer does not care what the manuscript says...It is the publisher who might need help >

And if there is no publisher?

According to the "story line" promoted by the Trice email set, <ET> found a "reliable" printer willing to publish, Fischer sent the manuscript directly to them, but....how can they print something they can't read? Hence, <ET> is supposedly brought back into the story in order to clarify the scrawl.

(Next he knew--so the "story line" goes--he was once again cut out of the picture as the printer was told not to deliver the books to him. Hey, I'm not the one who made up the story line, here.)

I developed a case of indigestion trying to digest the varying storylines. But it is there to be made, for sure. <GeauxCool> you are as capable as I am (maybe more so).

.

May-02-09  Jim Bartle: "And if there is no publisher?"

There's always a publisher, even if it's just a person who wants to print the book.

A lot of confusion here, no surprise. A printer will only accept something that is ready to print, or close to it. Unless it's something really special, a printer would not accept a hand-written manuscript.

Preparing a book to be printed, starting from a manuscript, is called pre-press. And yes (contradicting myself, I guess), there are businesses which will do the pre-press work and also print the book. But there always has to be a person to supervise and guide the work--and pay for it. That person (or persons or company) is the publisher.

I've stayed away from the "story line" entirely, so I can't comment on that. I'm mainly interested in the evidence the book itself gives concerning whether Fischer wrote it or participated in writing it at all. And I've seen enough now to be confident he didn't.

May-02-09
Premium Chessgames Member
  jessicafischerqueen: <robmtchl: I wrote to the Toronto Star and they said they had never published a review of the book by IM Day.>
May-02-09
Premium Chessgames Member
  Open Defence: why isnt this forum discussing <Mrs Alekhine> ?
May-02-09
Premium Chessgames Member
  jessicafischerqueen: Well it was before, but after you guys posted that photo of her, people kind of "lost interest.."

OUCH

May-02-09  GeauxCool: <Fischer generally refused to talk to journalists or entrepreneurs who approached him in droves with projects and business proposals.>

http://www.chessbase.com/newsdetail...

May-02-09
Premium Chessgames Member
  jessicafischerqueen: <NakoSonorense:> Has IM Day written a retraction about the book yet? Or is he still standing by his word that the book is real?
May-02-09  Jim Bartle: Well, jessica, it was his opinion that the book is real, not his word. Or did I read it wrong?
May-02-09
Premium Chessgames Member
  jessicafischerqueen: Hi <Jim>!

Sorry for the confusion- I didn't format that post right.

That's actually a post from <nakosonorense> that he dropped on the <Fischer Thread> so I just reposted it here.

I just left instructions on the <Fischer thread> for <nako> and <robmtchl> that the <61> discussion has moved over here.

May-02-09  Jim Bartle: Random thoughts on "My 61":

--The book does exist, and is apparently well produced and interesting to read for some people.

--Fischer never mentioned working on it.

--His friends never said he was working on it, in fact some say he wasn't.

--It's in algebraic, which Fischer didn't like.

--The book is not available through any normal sales channels.

--Apparently no publisher is named, which is extremely odd.

--It has not been reviewed by any of the usual chess sites or magazines. Apparently no review copies were sent out, though this is standard practice.

--The writing style is completely opposite to his previous style, but is very similar in style to Ed Trice's annotations.

--"Fischer" admits in the introduction he wrote the book largely because he needed money, a most un-Fischerlike thing to do.

--Not a single autographed copy has surface, nor is there a photo of Fischer holding the book.

--Ed Trice believes the opinions of people who have not seen are not qualified to give an opinion, despite the fact the book is not openly for sale.

Not any doubt as far as I'm concerned.

May-02-09  PinnedPiece: <JB>

Good arguments if you were discussing the actions and behavior of a rational personal completely in touch with their social milieu. Fischer wasn't. All bets are off, regarding a normal publishing process. Just look at his letter to the Prime Minister of Iceland, and argue that this is someone with a firm grip on reality, and likely to do expected things.

There is a certain ring of plausibility (not saying "authenticity") in the Trice communication trail as to why the book was published the way it was.

Still, many of your points are unassailable, IMHO. E.g. No one of his "close friends" or wife has provided any corroborative evidence of Fischer's involvement, even regarding any note-keeping on the previous M60MG.

One wonders about those who have not yet spoken up--there are several. Sverrison and Einarsson's disavowals must be taken as conclusive evidence that Fischer himself did not knowingly contribute to the book. That DOES NOT close the door on a third party (Not <ET>) masterminding the fraud.

Over the last three months, with everything several posters here have turned up, I would have to say that the inconsistncies in the story line gives more support for the likelihood that no conspiracy committee was at work, but more probably one person that couldn't quite decide how to proceed with the deception. And AT THIS POINT IN TIME, if the book is being sold, it is very much on the black markets of the back counters in out of the way shops in uncommunicative countries, or just biding time in boxes in basements.

.

May-02-09  Jim Bartle: A reasonable reply.
May-03-09  hackmate: The Toronto Star article that was never written can be seen here

http://s542.photobucket.com/albums/...

May-03-09
Premium Chessgames Member
  IMlday: PP: "...Sverrison and Einarsson's disavowals must be taken as conclusive evidence that Fischer himself did not knowingly contribute to the book."

Can you be sure even of that? Just talking to the press at all was a no-no for Fischer's friends. When the ebay auction became world news naturally media asked if there was a story and Mr. E. steered them away, Fischer had nothing to do with it ("it" not even defined whether the auction or the annotations) but steering them away. No story here; leave him alone. That is precisely what Fischer would have wanted them to do. Is it true? Perhaps, or the truth as far as they knew it. Or the truth as far as Fischer wanted the world to know? Or maintaining a legal plausible deniability until the who sues who of the legal copyright drama plays out? There are many possible reasons for the undeniable murk. Evidently Batsford itself isn't clear on the copyright for North American rights to M60MG. Larry Bevand had to buy through a middleman to get copies for Strategy Games in Canada because B's didn't want to risk being sued. I believe Batsfords had big money problems circa 1997 and a court unwound it's assets? Having Fischer attacking them in wacky press conferences wasn't good for business. International copyright law is a big mess anyway with gm-level weasel lawyers licking their lips over who is or isn't the pirate. The Toronto Star picked up on that angle with an article in Insight March 15th titled "Can you copyright a chess move?" by Murray Whyte. That article didn't mention M61MG at all, mostly internet transmission or broadcasting but compared various sports legally. The threat of legal action was enough for Chessbase to 'cease and desist' from borrowing the Bulgarian Kamsky-Topalov coverage. "It is too expensive, time-wise, to get involved in protracted lawsuits with Bulgarians, and there is little to gain, monetarily, from a victory." Weasels rulez eh.
To expect normal distribution, review copies, U.S. talk show circuitry and all that regular promotion is a bit naive in our wide world of weasels. Can one prove Fischer had anything to do with the book? If not then how can he be sued? Besides he already has megafines from U.S. Treasury Dep't, Mr. "Judgement-proof" financially, even more so now that he's dead.

May-03-09
Premium Chessgames Member
  jessicafischerqueen: May-03-09 hackmate: The chess article that Lawrence Day didn't write for the Toronto Star can be seen here http://s542.photobucket.com/albums/...
May-03-09
Premium Chessgames Member
  jessicafischerqueen: <IM Day>

I thank you for your recent post in <Mrs. Alekhine> forum.

I think a post by you on the <Fischer thread> may go a long ways to helping others understand the wisdom of having a separate forum for this discussion-

So that the <Fischer page>, not to mention the <IM Lawrence Day> page, might remain free of this one topic issue.

<hackmate> is posting at the <Fischer page> and a few others-

We've had three weeks of great discussion of Bobby's life and chess on his player page- and also great spirited discussion of <My 61 games> in the <Mrs. Alekhine> forum.

Please sir- a public post from you on the <Fischer player page> endorsing this "split forum system" would earn you the lifelong gratitude of a host of people who wish to discuss <other things> about Bobby Fischer.

Yours,
jessicafischerqueen/Mrs. Alekhine

May-03-09
Premium Chessgames Member
  Stonehenge: Pity Mr. Day is so naive. Trice is a con man and a vulture, period.
May-03-09
Premium Chessgames Member
  jessicafischerqueen: <hackmate> thank you very much for joining our discussion of <61 Games> here.

We really appreciate it.

May-03-09  Jim Bartle: Mr. Day: Leaving aside the issue of who wrote it, do you honestly think the book is well written?

I have seen only a few pages, but p. 735 really stands out as an example of really bad writing: "...each player has roughly the same level of Kingside resources distributed relatively suitably for the position, and the Queenside has the appearance of defensibility, though in state of pending liquidation. Such a static summary is shattered by the strategic maneuver I was about to undertake with the Knight."

Also, the glee the writer takes in disproving "Weinstein's" analysis is really tacky.

The style of writing there is also extremely similar to the style of annotation used by Mr. Trice in his analysis of Gothic Chess games.

May-03-09
Premium Chessgames Member
  chancho: Fischer had options to make money while in Iceland. Signing autographs, writting a biography, playing a match, giving simuls, etc. He was approached to play Chess960, in 2005, as well as the Gothic match. All this was happening in 2005, 2006 while he was fighting UBS regarding his 3.5 million:

http://www.geocities.jp.nyud.net:80...

Maybe Fischer was unable to see things clearly because of his health problems at that stage of his life, but if Einar Einarsson (who kept in touch with Bobby) says the book was not written by Fischer then that's a slam dunk, no two ways about it. Something other than mere speculation to convince otherwise needs to come out at this point.

May-03-09
Premium Chessgames Member
  jessicafischerqueen: <IM Lawrence Day>- thanks so much for your exceedingly helpful message on the <Fischer player page>.

Also, you appear to really know your "kibbitzing tricks"!!

When I clicked on the link you kindly provided, it took me DIRECTLY to the Header of this forum-

Which reads, of course, <My 61 Memorable Games>.

Brilliant!

I remain your fan, and not just because you are one of our (Canadian!) finest chess players.

Jessica From Canada Queen

May-03-09
Premium Chessgames Member
  IMlday: Jim, No. Hard to believe but I wasted an hour checking out Ed Trice Gothic annotations to see his style. It is not at all like the M61MG author. For one thing it is aimed too low, and it is also not consistently original in choice of metaphor. Chess is a technical subject and authors tend to unthinkingly re-use metaphors that others have used previously. Novel expression with meaningful content is a more rare creative talent. Keep in mind that this is extended over 753 pages. A sample of less than 1% is hardly going to give enough data for accurate analysis so there is little point rushing to conclusions with 99% 'dark matter'in your known universe. The critical dialog/rebuttal with "Weinstein" begins in game 2 and continues in many places, sometimes agreeing and sometimes disagreeing. Is it tacky? Sure. So what? Suppose the prodigy Weinstein had changed his name to "Superkarpov" would you still respect the convention? In my opinion the paragraph you quote from is related to Fischer and Seirawan conversations from 1992 (see "No Regrets" p. 30 note to 26..Qe8). This was critical Breyer theory and Spassky's plan was not unexpected. Why he would think Black was OK goes directly to his understanding of chess. It is easy to see White can penetrate deeply on the Queen-side but just when he enters there his army is far from his King and Black still has ways to explode the centre for counter-play. Even as it goes, until 30..f5? the game is alive after 30..Nf6! instead. So he calls 30..f5? a "tarnishing move". I can understand how the thematic coherence of Breyer theory is dulled by the misplay, but how could one such as Ed Trice? I don't think it is possible. In fact no forger would use "tarnishing" as a metaphor here because only advanced players would get the meaning.
May-03-09  Jim Bartle: Thanks for the reply. I wasn't arguing content but style, which I really do consider horrid. You make a good point on the analysis, though, that it takes a very strong player to make the point about the f5 move.

I agree chess writers can fall into the habit of using the same trite phrases, so that prose notes can read like the Informant. But the opposite is also true, that writers make such an effort to be different that it comes out as stilted and artificial. Phrases such as "resources distributed relatively suitably "state of pending liquidation" and "static summary" are good examples. Clarity should come first.

Not related directly here, but I just read Anand's annotations of a game against Kramnik from 96, where he writes he "smelled a rat" and changed his move. That's sharp and original writing.

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