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M61MG Wrestler
Member since Jun-28-09 · Last seen Nov-05-14
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   M61MG Wrestler has kibitzed 26 times to chessgames   [more...]
   Nov-05-14 M61MG Wrestler chessforum (replies)
 
M61MG Wrestler: ==== <James Demery> The link has been updated to this one: Robert James Fischer As the owners of this website clean up the old trash, the links above get broken. You called on an investigation of the M61MG book's legitmacy, and Trice's puppet <hackmate> made up a
 
   Jun-16-14 Viktor Korchnoi (replies)
 
M61MG Wrestler: <petrosianic: a few words that Fischer didn't even say (see "My 61 Memorable Games Hoax"). > http://www.chessgames.com/perl/ches... .
 
   Sep-27-12 Adams vs Gelfand, 2012 (replies)
 
M61MG Wrestler: Whereas Adams is seventh place....he needs to try harder. :)
 
   Feb-15-12 Bobby Fischer (replies)
 
M61MG Wrestler: <♗=== UGH ===♗> <Joshka: <rannewman> Those notes were collected and written over decades, and according to reports I've read, they measure some 22 inches high stacked on top of one another! The bootlegged book was printed in Iceland 2007. IM Larry ...
 
   Jun-23-11 jessicafischerqueen chessforum (replies)
 
...
 
   Aug-12-09 chessgames.com chessforum (replies)
 
M61MG Wrestler: In my profile I am having difficulty getting certain lines to separate, without adding a blank line in between. How can I ensure that a line of text starts on a new line? Here is an example that DOES NOT SEPARATE with a carriage return: Evans 1st M61MG Article ...
 
   Jul-25-09 Kibitzer's Café (replies)
 
M61MG Wrestler: ♗/////NO ONE BANNED\\\\\ ♗ Reminder to all: If you want to discuss or investigate the book "My 61 Memorable Games", I invite you to visit my chessforum. Other sites on the internet may not allow the discussion from all users that takes place on my forum.
 
   Jul-25-09 Shirov vs R Panjwani, 2009 (replies)
 
M61MG Wrestler: ♗/////NO ONE BANNED\\\\\ ♗ If you want to discuss or investigate the book "My 61 Memorable Games", I invite your to visit my chessforum, on which no CG.COM user is banned from participating. Other sites on the internet may not allow the discussion that takes ...
 
   Jul-03-09 H Olafsson vs P Smirnov, 2008 (replies)
 
M61MG Wrestler: ♗////LINKS NEEDED\\\\♗ I'm looking for good links to headline the "Uncovering the Truth" page. See the short kibitz history on my forum. Improvements solicited, and most welcome.
 
   Jun-29-09 chancho chessforum (replies)
 
M61MG Wrestler: New location for discussing "My 61 Mem Games", including all* previous posts on that topic from Mrs. Alekhine's forum. Click my Avatar to join in. Anyone is welcome. *some pruning has occurred on irrelevant posts.
 
(replies) indicates a reply to the comment.

Uncovering the Truth About M61MG

Kibitzer's Corner
< Earlier Kibitzing  · PAGE 4 OF 54 ·  Later Kibitzing>
Apr-14-09  robmtchl: So,
is this where "My61" is going to be discussed?
Apr-14-09  hms123: <robmtchl> This is the place. What's up?
Apr-14-09
Premium Chessgames Member
  chancho: <robmtchl> Yes indeed. But really, what is there to discuss? The reason that Fischer needed to write it, was due to money problems. But our friend <PinnedPiece> has debunked that theory nice and proper. Who doesn't already know that someone took the original work of Fischer, added some creative writing(BARF!)that does not sound like him, and used Chess software to improve the analysis. Can anyone picture Fischer sitting down and relying on a computer to help him improve his analysis? I think the odds are much better that the Martians will land on Earth to promote Trice's Legally own land on...
Apr-14-09  MageOfMaple: Yeah, not much discussion left :)

It seems to me that most people are satisified that <Fischer> wasn't involved, and that <Trice> was, and that that's enough.

But there's still:

<Joshka>, who: came clean, then regretted it, then provided IM Day a copy, then denied it, and is now biding his time while he waits for his glorious master, Ed "I lost my patent and lied about it" Trice, to prevail and save him.

<IMlDay>, who: wrote that Bobby did write it, then refused to retract that opinion, then finally stated that he doesn't understand why it even matters who wrote it, and is now presently talking to the ducks because they also don't care who wrote it.

and

<PinnedPiece> who: seems convinced that Fischer wasn't involved, and Trice was, but won't consider the case closed until he knows what color pants Trice was wearing at the time.

Apr-14-09  MageOfMaple: Oh, and a never-ending string of sockpuppets, who show up from nowhere, attack Labate for no adequately explained reason, and tell heroic stories of Trice, including, but not limited to, saving cats from trees.
Apr-14-09
Premium Chessgames Member
  IMlday: I still think Fischer wrote it (except the editors' notes which are clearly marked.)

Fischer notoriously changed his mind again and again in the grand bifurcated fashion. Authorized. Unauthorized. Authorized. Unauthorized. That's exactly like the Fischer we all knew. If that were the case, wouldn't you prefer an editor/layout guy who made a copy himself to preserve it for history? Is that scrupulous or unscrupulous?

Besides, if you believe the forgery theory you must consider who could have written it. I'm sure Ed Trice finds it quite amusing that people think he wrote it. It is quite a compliment but I doubt anyone who has actually read it believes that.

And all these arguments that such-and-such an Ed is scrupulous/unscrupulous don't really address the prime issue at all. Who wrote it?

And why?

If it were a forger what was his motive? Neither fame nor fortune are options. A cheap hoax would be instantly identifiable. The readers would want their money back, not be lauding the gigantic 753-page product as excellent. There are big logical flaws in the forgery theory in my opinion.

But sure, it doesn't sound like Fischer 40 years ago edited by Larry Evans, nor like Fischer's drunken radio rants where there was no time for his other personality to reverse the first's eccentric commentary. That is obvious but doesn't answer the questions.

Likewise the origin of the cover photographs doesn't affect authorship. The packaging and distribution are obviously bizarre but that proves nothing new.

With a little patience I'm sure it will all become clearer. And really, does it matter? Google "Who wrote Shakespeare?" and there's over 10,000 entries. In the long run of history it doesn't much affect one's enjoyment of the plays.

Apr-14-09  MageOfMaple: <IMlDay: And really, does it matter?>

If it is a forgery, it doesn't matter very much who specifically. But it *does* matter whether it was Fischer, or someone trying to exploit his death and defiling his memory.

Apr-14-09  Jim Bartle: "Google "Who wrote Shakespeare?" and there's over 10,000 entries. In the long run of history it doesn't much affect one's enjoyment of the plays."

Well, yes. On the other hand, whether a "Rembrandt" in a museum is a true Rembrandt or a forgery is a very, very big deal.

I've only seen the pages which have been scanned onto the Internet. But the writing seems just terrible to me, incredibly wordy and also mean-spirited toward those the author disagrees with.

Mr. Day, leaving aside the question of who wrote it, do you really believe the text on, for example, page 735 is well written?

Apr-14-09
Premium Chessgames Member
  jessicafischerqueen: <IMlday>

Thank you so much for joining our discussion in the new <My 61 memorable games> forum!!

Speaking as a Canadian, and a Canadian chess fan, it's a real honor to have you in here.

Jess

Apr-14-09
Premium Chessgames Member
  chancho: The forger did not rewrite the whole book of course. Fischer's original work from 1969 was simply slightly altered in the annotations.

For example, this from the original M60MG:

<On 13...Q-Q2 14.BQN5! PxB; 15.QxR, BQ3; 16.RXB!,PXR 17.QxKP followed by N-B5 with a powerful bind.>

From M61MG: <On 13...Qd7 14.Bb5! axb5 15.Qxa8 Bd6 and now 16.Rxe4! dxe4 17.Qxe4 followed by Nf5> <<<creates a very powerful bind.>>>

That's the beauty of whoever concocted this scam. Fischer did write it, (His 1969 work that is) and someone simply added the early material with their new to make the hoax book. So you get Fischer, but also the work of the forger.

Does the text below honestly sound like Bobby Fischer?

<With such excellent hindsight I think it's safe to say that maybe White needs to consider demoting the ebullience over finding 12.Re1. As a light squared Bishop preservationist, I'm more inclined to play 12.Bb3 Qd6 13.Be3 Nd7 14.f3 Bg6 15.Rc1 as I look at the position today.>

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_538-FFQ4e...

Apr-14-09  parisattack: If this book has neither publisher nor copyright I suppose one of the few people who actually possess a copy could have it professionally scanned and sell as an eBook?

I wonder if GM Keene ever received the review copy he requested?

Apr-14-09  blacksburg: <If this book has neither publisher nor copyright I suppose one of the few people who actually possess a copy could have it professionally scanned and sell as an eBook?>

i have repeatedly suggested that anyone with a copy of the book should print it and post it online somewhere for all of us to read and make our own judgments. there would be no copyright violation, because...well...there's no copyright or publisher.

this would seem to indicate that anyone with the book is involved in trying to SELL it. there is no other reason not to scan and post it.

regardless, the people that are trying to defend the book as legitimate are grasping at straws at this point. mr. einarsson's contribution to the issue has ended any serious argument. it's a hoax.

Apr-14-09  AnalyzeThis: <IM Day: Besides, if you believe the forgery theory you must consider who could have written it. I'm sure Ed Trice finds it quite amusing that people think he wrote it. It is quite a compliment but I doubt anyone who has actually read it believes that.

And all these arguments that such-and-such an Ed is scrupulous/unscrupulous don't really address the prime issue at all. Who wrote it? >

Who cares? The burden of proof is on this who say that <Fischer> wrote the book, with Einar S Einarsson saying that he didn't. You would think there would be a contract, or a letter in Fischer's handwriting, or something. There isn't.

<IM Day: And why? >

To make money. Too complicated?

Apr-14-09  Jim Bartle: "To make money. Too complicated?"

I don't think that's right, AT. Or at least not exactly right.

I don't get the impression Trice cares about making money, except in the sense that making money represents validation and recognition of his accomplishments.

I think he wants to be recognized and praised as brilliant.

Apr-14-09  blacksburg: i think it's a fool's errand to try to figure out Trice's motivations. who cares WHY someone lies with every breath? you just refuse to believe anything he says, and move on.
Apr-14-09  Shams: "[D]emoting the ebullience" is simply horrendous prose that should offend the ears even of our ESL colleagues on this forum. Pretentious as hell, but meaning nothing at all. Bobby wrote, and spoke, clearly. I'm not sure I need to read any more to pass judgment on this.
Apr-14-09  Jim Bartle: Shams: p. 735 is even worse: "...each player has roughly the same level of Kingside resources distributed relatively suitably for the position, and Queenside has the appearance of defensibility, though in a state of pending liquidation. Such a static summary is shattered by the strategic maneuver I was about to undertake with the Knight."

It's like fingernails on a blackboard.

Apr-14-09
Premium Chessgames Member
  chancho: < Jim> What about this monstrosity:

<"...I notified them that I would be leaving for Tunis. This agitated them even more than the initial withdrawal. I was approached by everyone and their brother now, so it seemed. I feigned disgust over this ordeal, but inwardly they fed my need for something I had not recognized inside myself. After causing the prior set of turbulence, the strange sense of euphoria that I would experience after a crushing victory became attached to me without any of the turmoil of the struggle. The "fuss" became a mild form of "high", but, at the time, I did not recognize what this 'process' was, nor did I even have a faint understanding of it. "So I let them buzz around me, doing my best not to betray my inner smirks, instead presenting them with deadpan expressions and nonchalent shakes of my head when I grew tired of saying "No." Recall previously I mentioned that I could not 'clear my head' --- well, now, this perpetual 'fawning' over me was almost therapeutic, and it actually made me feel relaxed and almost calm. The incessant static noise was gone, and it was as if a burden had been lifted.>

Inner smirks... Bahahahaha!

Apr-14-09  parisattack: < blacksburg: this would seem to indicate that anyone with the book is involved in trying to SELL it. there is no other reason not to scan and post it. >

The logic here seems irrefutable. I can think of no other reason. One the other hand - it apparently cannot be purchased.

People change over the years...and they don't always speak as they write...but...I listened to Fischer's radio rants, read some of the notes in '60 Games', read some of his old Boys Life columns... and the writing samples from '61 Games' do not sound anything close to Fischer. Some of the phrases would put a high school English teacher into shock.

Apr-15-09  GeauxCool: <chancho> I've noticed a correlation between the writing style in your last example, and the writing style of Trice in the overuse of unnecessary quotation marks and commas:

Bobby-Mem61: <The <"fuss"> became a mild form of <"high">, but, at the time, I did not recognize what this <'process'> was, nor did I even have a faint understanding of it.>

Trice-Jul08: <I intend to <"raise"> it to 1399...once I <"took over"> the ID, <"again">, I deliberately tanked the rating to get it U1400 for the purpose of playing in the World Open...>

Of course, many people, "abuse", quotation "marks" and, commas, and many also have impersonated Bobby Fischer:

<ughaibu <Oct 14 2006 - Trice has been hinting about this for several months on another site, this includes a fabricated, obnoxious Fisheresque alter-ego...>>

Now I don't know what any of this means, or why it's important, but I thought I'd share what I had observed, in case you can make any sense of it.

Apr-15-09  blacksburg: GIT TO THE CHOPPAAA!!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-9-T...

Apr-15-09  Gallicrow: It doesn't look closed to me:
Lawrence Day
Apr-15-09  Open Defence: why didnt he write a book on Fischer Random Chess ?
Apr-15-09  Open Defence: if someone was really evil, they would "publish" an unfinished Fischer Random book....
Apr-15-09
Premium Chessgames Member
  jessicafischerqueen: <Deffi> Well I have a "Controversial Theory" that this newfangled <Chess 960> is actually just a rip off of the "original" <Fischer Random Chess>.

I can't prove it though..

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