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Mar-13-07
 | | jessicafischerqueen: <Marco> A timely appearance by your <mighty brain>, but <dak> is surely right to call for some more detailed analysis? In particular, I think we should investigate the implications of a white <Qe2>, since <dak> brought that up twice. That said, I'm obviously a strong advocate of <b4> and that will remain my official vote. I just finished a paper for school this minute, so I'm going to have time this evening to do some more detailed analysis, which I will duly post. GOOOOOOOOO TEAM!! |
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Mar-13-07
| | jessicafischerqueen: <dak> My friend, the "waiting move" is not often seen in asymmetrical Sicilians. These open opposite-castled positions are in fact Horse Races, not Positional Manoeuvering Subtlety contests. We want to win the race... This entails risk.
"once more into the breach" shouted King Henry V at <Agincourt>... That we could be as wise and brave, I think we will win. |
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Mar-13-07
| | jessicafischerqueen: KK I been messing around with my board and pieces, and here's what I've come up with so far. Looks like we will have a quorum soon for <b4>, so let's look at what follows. They are almost certain to play <Ne2> rather than <Nd1>. If they play <Nd1> (they won't) this is good for us, as it relegates the Knight to passive defender. Now, once <16...b4 17.Ne2>, It is Absolutely Imperative that we make our <e5> break. <17...e5> cannot be met by <18.fxe5>, since then <Nxe5> and our Knight is on a dominating square... So likely is <18.Qd2>... <Dak>, I assume you mean <Qd2> rather than <e2>? After <Qd2> we can safely (and profitably) play <18...Nc5>, building up pressure on their Queenside. After <Qd2>, we are free to play <Nc5>, cuz if they play <fxe4> then we go <dxe4> and their attack is weakened. If after our <Nc5> they try <f5>, then we have <Nxe4> up our sleeve. <c5> is a great, great spot for our Knight. One of the huge advantages to <b4> followed by <e5> is that White must play forced moves after each, letting US dictate the position. And, after we play these two moves, here is our position: and I believe that this position is very close to equalizing for us. After <16...b4 17.Ne2 e5! 18.Qd2 Nc5!> We arrive at this position: Tell me you don't like this position: 
click for larger view |
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Mar-13-07
| | jessicafischerqueen: And More: From the position on my FEN, if they try <Bxc5>, we simply take back <dxc5> and their <f> pawn cannot advance: <Bxg5> refutes this-- nor can it take our <e> pawn, because if <fxe5> then not only do we still have <Bxg5>, they would have doubled isolanis and a wrecked position. Another reason why <c5> is a great spot for our Knight, both Offensively AND defensively... |
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| Mar-13-07 | | Swapmeet: I vote b4, which is more or less the strategic culmination of this entire opening. I like the idea of e5, perhaps followed by Qa5. |
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Mar-13-07
| | jessicafischerqueen: <e5> solves all immediate defensive problems. So long as their <f> pawn is restrained (and it is), they can't do squat. If <h6> then we go <g6> and their own pawns protect our King. If <g6> we just take <fxg6>, open a file for our rook, and King is perfectly safe. If <g6> <fxg6> and they go <hxg6>, then we go <h6> King not in any real danger after we play <17...e5> Crucial to play <e5> after they retreat their Knight... |
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| Mar-13-07 | | TTLump: I like <jessicafischerqueen>'s analysis. Her Idea of 16...b4 17.Ne2 e5 18.Qd2 Nc5 is both plausible and sound, however I think we also should take a look at 18...Qa5, then followed up by 19.(Kb1 or a3) Nc5. |
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| Mar-14-07 | | Marco65: <jessica> Great analysis, I like the position in the diagram (although white king and rook are misplaced). It may prove we are doing fine so far. I especially like the fact that you refrain from playing the immediate ...fxe5, although that sounds intuitive I saw games where Black suffers because of the triple attack to d6 after Bxe5. But... since fxe5 is not in our plans, maybe we can even improve on it by postponing e5 until it is really necessary (i.e. after h6), and start immediately with ...Nc5, ...Qa5, ...Bb7 <TTLump> If ...b4 wins the poll, I'm eager to see your usual great list of master games, maybe after Ne2 that is likely to be played. If you have time... |
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| Mar-14-07 | | Marco65: I meant ...exf4 Bxf4 and not fxe5 |
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| Mar-14-07 | | dakgootje: Mkay jess, you've got me there, I don't see an immediate hole in your analysis, so I assume you are right. *Applauds* |
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| Mar-14-07 | | Marco65: That was the only comment I saw in hours. Is the discussion over? If so, why not count votes and make the move one day before? I'm still for ...b4, anybody against please provide an alternative. I have seen comments worried about a kingside attack, but no proposal of an alternative. Chess rules don't allow to pass the turn... |
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| Mar-14-07 | | hitman84: 16. ... b4
17. Na4 Qa5
18. b3 Nc5
19. Nxc5 dxc5
20. Qb2
click for larger view
or 16. h5 b4
17. Na4 Qa5
18. b3 Bb7
19. Kb1 Bc6
20. Nb2
click for larger viewWith the idea Nc4.
16. h5 Qa5
17. Kb1 Bb7
18. Bg2 Rf-c8
click for larger viewI've posted this line already. We need to delay b4. Qa5 is the way to go. The ♘ is loaded defending the e4 pawn. White cannot play g6 in view of Bf6 which could puncture white's king side.
We could play Bb7 followed up with Rfc8(square vacation for N or B) with multiple threats like a sac on c3 and Nc5. My vote <Qa5> |
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| Mar-14-07 | | chessmoron: <hitman84> The greatest problem playing Qa5 is 17.h6 which creates SERIOUS problems for our king. 17...gxh6 18. gxh6 This position is not good at all:
click for larger view |
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| Mar-14-07 | | hitman84: <chessmoron>
16. h5 Qa5
17. h6 e5
18. Qd2 g6
19. f5 b4
20. Nb1 Bb7
21. f6 Bd8
22. Bg2 Bc7
click for larger view
Looks great for black.
16. h5 Qa5
17. h6 e5
18. Qd2 g6
19. f5 b4
20. Nb1 Bb7
21. Bg2 Rfc8
click for larger view |
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| Mar-14-07 | | chessmoron: Why couldn't they exchange pawns instead of moving the queen backwards? Ther queen is threatening knight by Bh3 (after we go for g6). |
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| Mar-14-07 | | hitman84: 17. h6 e5
18. fxe5 dxe5
19. Qd2 b4
20. Nd5
click for larger view
This does'nt look good.
17. h6 e5
18. fxe5 dxe5
19. Qd2 g6
20. Nd5 Qxd2+
21. Rxd2 Bc5
click for larger view
Looks playable.
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| Mar-14-07 | | hitman84: I guess we shoulda played Bb7 on our previous turn. |
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Mar-14-07
| | jessicafischerqueen: <Hitman> That's sound analysis, but I still don't get the urgency of your preferred move order. <Qa5> can be played later as well-- I think <b4> puts immediate dangerous pressure on them... Still voting <b4> here |
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| Mar-14-07 | | hitman84: 16. h5 Qa5
17. h6 gxh6
18. gxh6 Bf6
19. Qd2 b4
click for larger view
What about this line ?
16. h5 Qa5
17. h6 gxh6
18. Rxh6 b4
19. Nb1 Bb7
20. f5 exf5
21. exf5 Rf-c8
22. Qh4 Qa4
23. Bd3 Ne5
click for larger view |
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| Mar-14-07 | | hitman84: Ok I'm voting <Qa5> to make the game exciting! <Jess>My idea is not to allow Na4->b3. |
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Mar-14-07
| | jessicafischerqueen: <Hitman> I really don't like either of those last two diagrams with our King exposed on the b-file. Not one bit. And in the last diagram, what's to stop White from playing <24.Rxh7>? |
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| Mar-14-07 | | hitman84: <Jess>There is a mate on c2 after Nd3+ OK that's it for now..
Good ♘! |
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Mar-14-07
| | jessicafischerqueen: Ah clever-- Thanks <Hitman> STill voting <b4> however... |
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| Mar-14-07 | | Marco65: I thought the discussion was over and I found tons of variation to analyse. <hitman84> might have a point in deferring ...b4 until Nc3 is tied to the defence of e4. I'd like to analyse it tonight (4 hours from now) |
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| Mar-14-07 | | Marco65: Unless you decide to post the move one day before (it was my suggestion after all). But I'm no more in favour of that... |
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