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WCC Editing Project
Member since Jul-19-13 · Last seen Aug-24-24
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   WCC Editing Project has kibitzed 3286 times to chessgames   [more...]
   Jun-07-15 Biographer Bistro (replies)
 
WCC Editing Project: <zanzibar: Since I'm an adviser to editors, rather than an editor, I'm unfamiliar with what exactly editors can do.> I want to bring this post to your attention again: Biographer Bistro (kibitz #10966) It explains what editors can do and what not.
 
   May-31-15 chessgames.com chessforum (replies)
 
WCC Editing Project: <chessgames.com> Maybe you overlooked this post Biographer Bistro (kibitz #11028) , since the Bistro has become rather fast-paced. An answer would be interesting to several people.
 
   May-29-15 WCC Editing Project chessforum (replies)
 
WCC Editing Project: <Chessical> Thank you very much for your contribution(s)! We hope that you will support us in the future, also. For sure, you have helped us quite a lot already. The draft in question is already finished and was send away, though. It is still a valuable source and
 
   Apr-01-15 Moscow (1925) (replies)
 
WCC Editing Project: <Capablanca> on his experience at <Moscow 1925>: <"Although very philosophical, very observant and completely dispassionate in my judgment about everything concerning chess and its great exponents, I was nonetheless <<<unable to ...
 
   Mar-08-15 Tabanus chessforum (replies)
 
WCC Editing Project: Ribli - Torre Candidates Quarterfinal (1983) Audiovisual aid: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W8G...
 
   Mar-08-15 Alekhine - Bogoljubov World Championship Match (1929) (replies)
 
WCC Editing Project: <beatgiant> In case you want to read further on this topic, I have prepared a sourced timeline that summarizes the <Alekhine-Capablanca> rematch negotiations from 26 Feb 1929 - March 1935: Game Collection: WCC: Alekhine-Bogoljubov 1934 ARCHIVE
 
   Jan-29-15 suenteus po 147 chessforum (replies)
 
WCC Editing Project: <One Third of the original "Big Three"> I beg your pardon! I'm on vacation in Canada, and I just now saw your post in the WCC forum. By "we" I meant the cg.com biographers, not the WCC project. All of the research compiled for additions to your intro was done by ...
 
   Nov-23-14 R Fuchs vs Tal, 1969 (replies)
 
WCC Editing Project: <MC Scarlett> If so, very very quietly...
 
   Nov-19-14 Alexander Alekhine (replies)
 
WCC Editing Project: <Karpova> Thanks for the correction! That sum makes more sense now in conjunction with the report on the organizers' losses. Good heavens- they can't have made much on ticket sales.
 
   Nov-17-14 E Walther vs Tal, 1966
 
WCC Editing Project: Queen trap Trick or Treat- this game was played on Halloween, 1966.
 
(replies) indicates a reply to the comment.

WCC Editing Project

Kibitzer's Corner
< Earlier Kibitzing  · PAGE 1 OF 127 ·  Later Kibitzing>
Jul-20-13
Premium Chessgames Member
  WCC Editing Project: When we submit our final edit, in the intros we can include the hyperlinks to <Historical Tournament> collections where possible.

This will help publicize such official tournament collections, because I suspect more passersby read the WCC than they do the Tournament List, though both are on the front page.

However, in cases such as this:

Game Collection: Paris 1878

I don't think we should hyperlink unpromoted member collections, because if in future they are promoted, we won't be able to upgrade the hyperlink in the WCC introductions.

Once Daniel gets our final edit, we won't be able to change anything on the new WCC intros.

Jul-20-13
Premium Chessgames Member
  WCC Editing Project: In my view, websites such as <Chess Notes> and <Chess Archaeology> definitely count as reliable sources.

However, there's a problem linking these sites as references, because the links aren't persistent.

So in the case of <Chess Notes>, we should list the reference as <Chess Note 4244>, for example?

I'm not sure how to link reliably to <Chess Archaeology>.

For example, are we happy with this?

Game Collection: WCC: Steinitz-Gunsberg 1890

<1 Newspaper excerpt taken from Nick Pope's research at http://www.chessarch.com/index.php]>

I may be imagining this, but I think there might actually be a method to make a persistent link to <Chess Notes> and maybe even <Chess Archaeology> that will take the reader right to the article in question.

I think maybe some people at cg.com know how to do this too.

Jul-20-13
Premium Chessgames Member
  WCC Editing Project: <Editors>

When you finish a final edited template for a WCC event, post your edit right here in the forum.

Then we can examine your edit- once the biographers agree it's ready to go, I'll then repost your edit into one of the games collections and mark it FINISHED.

If your edited text is too long for one post, just break it into two consecutive posts here in the forum.

Jul-20-13  Thanh Phan: For archives or cache links try one of these,

in your search line type archive.is/ then add your link, should look like http://archive.is/www.chessarch.com

or in your search line type cache: then your link with no space, should look like this cache:http://www.chessarch.com/index.php and just push enter in your search line, should show something like http://webcache.googleusercontent.c...

Jul-20-13
Premium Chessgames Member
  WCC Editing Project: <Thanh>

Would you show us how to use your method to make this link go right to the article in question? If you can, then I can put it right into the template.

Game Collection: WCC: Steinitz-Gunsberg 1890

"The prophets, both on this and the other side of the Atlantic, will have to find a new occupation. They ventured to predict--and Mr. Steinitz's reputation and great achievements certainly warranted the forecast--that the veteran, as in past matches, would have matters all his own way with the English player, but the result shows that Gunsberg was too lightly reckoned and that once more he is following up his former brilliant achievements by making such a bold stand against the undefeated hero of twenty-five years' battle.1"

<1 Newspaper excerpt taken from Nick Pope's research at http://www.chessarch.com/index.php]>

This might be difficult because the reference is so vague eh? Maybe someone will have to search all Nick Pope's articles to make an accurate persistent link.

Jul-20-13
Premium Chessgames Member
  WCC Editing Project: This brings up another point.

While I think all will agree that websites such as <Chess Notes> and <Chess Archaeology> are reliable sources, we should still source the same information with a book, journal, or newspaper where possible, even if this means "double sourcing" the same piece of information.

The reason for this is that any website, no matter how reliable or august, may suddenly disappear.

However, a book, journal or magazine isn't going to suddenly disappear.

Think of Wikipedia- I'd say maybe even half of the hyperlinks on that site are currently dead.

We want to avoid this, I'm sure.

Jul-20-13  Thanh Phan: Without having the actual link to the article <in this instance, http://www.chessarch.com/archive/18...> you would have to search the site,

once you have that then you can type in your search line for cache:http://www.chessarch.com/archive/18...

then push enter, it should show a link like http://webcache.googleusercontent.c...

with a note at the top saying something like
<This is Google's cache of http://www.chessarch.com/archive/18.... It is a snapshot of the page as it appeared on Jul 8, 2013 02:08:07 GMT. The current page could have changed in the meantime. Learn more Tip: To quickly find your search term on this page, press Ctrl+F or ⌘-F (Mac) and use the find bar.>

Jul-20-13  Thanh Phan: Also once you have the actual link you wish to keep, http://archive.is/ has tools to help you search for saved snapshots or archive the url to create a snapshot of a webpage even if the actual page is removed
Jul-20-13
Premium Chessgames Member
  Phony Benoni: For linking to <Chess Archaeology>, use this pattern:

ttp://www.chessarch.com/excavations/item.php?a=1-
&source=Atlanta_Sunny_South&date=1897.07.17

There will be an "h" at the beginning of the actual link, of course. I took it out to show you how the link works.

Two parts of this will change for each citation:

(1) The newspaper name, between "source=" and "&date". Substitute the paper's name exactly as it appears, with an underscore between each word, e.g. "Chicago_Tribune" or "Brooklyn_Daily_Eagle". (All without quotation marks, of course.

2) Substitute the date, in "yyyy.mm.dd" format. Use initial zeros, if necessary.

For instance, the "St. Louis Globe-Democrat" for January 16, 1886, becomes:

ttp://www.chessarch.com/excavations/item.php?a=1-
&source=St._Louis_Globe-Democrat&date=1886.01.16-

Adding the initial "h" gives this link:

http://www.chessarch.com/excavation....

Jul-20-13
Premium Chessgames Member
  Phony Benoni: <Chess Notes> is a bit tricker. Here is the pattern I have found:

http://www.chesshistory.com/winter/...

Without the initial "h", we see:

ttp://www.chesshistory.com/winter/winter38.html#-
5173._Steinitz_and_who_C.N._3463

Two things change here.

1) The number after "winter/winter" changes each month. A list of these is available at the "Chess Notes Archives" page, http://www.chesshistory.com/winter/..., or can be seen at the top of each month's entries.

2) The citation to the individual article, following "html#". This consists of the entry number, with a period and the exact title, all words being separated by an underscore.

For example, an article from the current issue of interest to me:

ttp://www.chesshistory.com/winter/winter107.html-
#8082._St_Louis_1941

Which turns into the link

http://www.chesshistory.com/winter/...

By the way, it was <crawfb5> who first showed me the "Chess Archaeology" link. "Chess Notes" I may have figured out for myself, based on an example given by <Karpova>.

Jul-20-13  crawfb5: There is an error in the introduction to Lasker-Steinitz World Championship (1894)

<The match began in New York on March 15, 1894, and was fairly even with two victories to each player in the first six games. However, Lasker then won five consecutive games in Philadelphia.>

When CG asked back in February in the <Biographer's Bistro> about a lingering correction slip on this issue, here was my answer:

<crawfb5: The correction slip on Lasker-Steinitz 1894 is essentially correct; the New York phase of the match ran 15 March - 6 April for Games 1-8. Game 9 was in Philadelphia on 14 April, Game 10 on 19 April and Game 11 on 21 April. The remaining games were in Montreal, finishing on 26 May with Game 19.>

I probably won't have time to source this until this evening or maybe tomorrow. I know the Philadelphia details are in Hilbert's bio of Shipley and I probably got the other dates from newspaper accounts via <Chess Archeology>. If anybody else wants to confirm before I have time to come back to it, that's fine with me.

Jul-20-13  Karpova: Just a small note on the first Dr. Lasker - Dr. Tarrasch WC match, which was unfortunately cancelled:

Lasker-Tarrasch World Championship Match (1908)

Dr. Lasker describes in 'Lasker's Chess Magazine' in 1906 the first challenge for a WC match from Dr. Tarrasch in 1903.

This article, called <Schachmeister in Vergangenheit und Gegenwart> (this sounds a bit strange, the original title (I don't have access to 'Lasker's Chess Magazine') may have been something like 'Chessmasters of past and present times' or 'Chessmasters of the past and presence') is reprinted (translated by Löwy) on pages 94-98 of the 1907 'Wiener Schachzeitung'.

On page 96, Dr. Lasker writes that 3 years ago (i. e. 1903), Dr. Tarrasch challenged him for the WC crown and the terms were agreed upon. After Dr. Tarrasch's ice skating accident (see page 364 of the 1904 'Wiener Schachzeitung', the match was postponed. According to Dr. Lasker, Dr. Tarrasch called the challenge back then a faux pas in his book 'Der Wettkampf Tarrasch-Marshall'.

On pages 291 to 292, the 1903 'Wiener Schachzeitung' reports the conditions for the match which should have taken place in September or October 1904 (see <perfidious>' post Siegbert Tarrasch also).

Jul-20-13
Premium Chessgames Member
  WCC Editing Project: <Karpova>

Do you want to edit the beginning of this intro to include a mention of the previous plan for the match that fell through? If so, you can write your edit here in the forum with your sources listed.

Here's the first part of the existing intro from this template Game Collection: WCC: Lasker vs Tarrasch 1908:

<Lasker vs Tarrasch 1908

Düsseldorf / Munich

Dr. Siegbert Tarrasch, after several major tournament successes in the 1890s, was widely considered the most likely successor to Steinitz. At one point,>

THERE SHOULD BE AN ACTUAL DATE OR AT LEAST YEAR HERE, NOT JUST "AT ONE POINT"

< Lasker had challenged him to a match and been curtly brushed off. Because of Tarrasch's earlier snub, the two were not on speaking terms for years, which delayed any chance Tarrasch might have of playing for the title.1>

ADD NEW KARPOVA INFO HERE?

<In 1908, Tarrasch challenged Emanuel Lasker for the World Chess Championship...>

Jul-20-13
Premium Chessgames Member
  WCC Editing Project: <Phony Benoni> thanks for such detailed instructions on linking to <chess notes> and <chess archaeology>. I'll put your instructions up in the intro tomorrow, after "test driving them."
Jul-20-13
Premium Chessgames Member
  WCC Editing Project: Given the detailed contributions already by <Crawfb5> and <Karpova>, I think I will limit the <mirrored games collections> to the 8 I already have in the profile.

Let's get these first 8 done before tackling more. Also we can figure out a good method for editing as we go along on these 8.

I think maybe this might be more workable if I edit the templates as we go along, based on the new information posted by you guys here in the forum?

We can always still change stuff later if we need to on any given intro.

Jul-20-13
Premium Chessgames Member
  WCC Editing Project: There seem to be two issues at hand, brought to mind by <Crawfb5>:

1. Correcting the text of the intros

2. Correcting dates and venues on the actual games in the WCC crosstables, where necessary. (I notice some of the games in Lasker-Steinitz World Championship (1894) are listed as "New York/Philadelphia.")

Number 2 would require correction slips eh? The sourcing for the games dates and venues would have to be entered into the correction slips.

It's late here and I'm not going to work anymore tonight, but I have a copy of <Kurt Hamburger and Fries'> biography of <Steinitz>, "BOHEMIAN CAESAR."

I believe I can correct the mirror intro of Lasker-Steinitz World Championship (1894) and source it to the <Kurt Hamburger> text, once I find the right page numbers.

Jul-20-13
Premium Chessgames Member
  WCC Editing Project: Ah and also please make a log of correction slips?

When you make a correction slip, be sure to copy and save the text of your correction, your sourcing information, and a note of the date you submitted the correction slip.

Keep all of this archived in your own files so we don't duplicate anything.

In addition, when you make any new correction slips for this project, please post all that information in the forum so I can stick it up on the mirror edit.

That way we can keep track of what's been sent in for correction and what hasn't.

Jul-20-13  crawfb5: <2. Correcting dates on the actual games in the WCC crosstables.

Number 2 would require correction slips eh? The sourcing for the games dates would have to be entered into the correction slips.>

If you mean dates on the games themselves, we can change that ourselves. If the site info on the game is incorrect, that would require a correction slip.

Jul-20-13
Premium Chessgames Member
  WCC Editing Project: <crawfb5> Quite right.

I'm going to put on a pot of coffee and dig out <Kurt Hamburger and Fries'> BOHEMIAN CAESAR right now actually, so I'll be up for a while.

<Big> when you confirm the correct game dates, can you just enter them in yourself if you have not already done that?

In addition, when you are ready can you also make the venue correction slips and then post your logs in here? Or did you already make the venue correction slips before and send them in? We can't just leave venues named <New York/Philadelphia>.

I can take care of sourcing the introduction thanks to the <Hamburger>.

Jul-20-13  crawfb5: Ok, tonight or tomorrow.
Jul-20-13
Premium Chessgames Member
  WCC Editing Project: Ok intro to Lasker-Steinitz World Championship (1894)

<Lasker vs Steinitz 1894

New York / Philadelphia / Montreal

In 1894, defending champion Wilhelm Steinitz was challenged by a fresh 25 year old talent from Prussia by the name of Emanuel Lasker.

After the necessary negotations, the following conditions were agreed upon: The winner of the match was to be the first to win 10 games, draws not counting. The time control was 15 moves per hour. The stakes were $2,000 per side. The match was to be played in New York, Philadelphia and Montreal, in that order.1>

This section is sourced to the <New York Recorder, March 11, 1894.>

I have confirmed this information in Kurt Landsberger's "Bohemian Caesar" p. 287, 291. Landsberger's own primary sources are from a challenge letter from Lasker to Steinitz dated August 31, 1893, and a New York Sun article dated March 5, 1894. So the match conditions are confirmed by Landsberger's primary sources.

However, it would still be super cool if someone could track down the <New York Recorder article of March 11, 1894>, just to make sure this article does indeed contain the correct match conditions.

=====
I have corrected the spelling error "negotations" to read <<<negotiations>>>.

#######################

On to the next section:

<The match began in New York on March 15, 1894, and was fairly even with two victories to each player in the first six games. However, Lasker then won five consecutive games in Philadelphia.>

=======

I have corrected this text to read: <The match began in New York on March 15, 1894, and was fairly even with two victories to each player in the first six games. However, Lasker then won the last two in New York and added four more consecutive victories in the second leg in Philadelphia.>

Primary source- New York Times article of April 8, 1894, reprinted in Landsberger p.296-97.

###################

On to the next section:

<IM Jack Peters attributed this success to Lasker's ability to convert queenless middlegames into advantageous endings:

"Lasker had noticed signs of uncertainty in Steinitz' handling of "simplified" middlegames, without Queens. Recognizing the champion's superiority in managing a full army of pieces, Lasker deliberately sought early Queen exchanges. This strategy certainly worked in Philadelphia.">

This section is sourced to <Chess Life, December 1994 (p40)>

---

I don't have a copy of this issue of <Chess Life> so I can't confirm the information. Does anyone have this copy of <Chess Life>? If so, please confirm this information for us?

################################

Jul-20-13
Premium Chessgames Member
  WCC Editing Project: Lasker-Steinitz World Championship (1894) edit PART TWO.

On to the last section:

<Steinitz was tenacious and managed to respond with back-to-back victories in the 13th game and the 14th game in Montreal, but the score was still heavily in Lasker's favor, 7 to 4. On the 19th game, Lasker achieved his 10th win, thereby becoming the 2nd World Chess Champion. It was no great surprise that Steinitz, then 58 years old, was unable to defend against the rising tide of players who had spent years studying his ideas. As Siegbert Tarrasch said,

"In my opinion the match with Steinitz does not have the great importance that they themselves attribute to it. For Steinitz has grown old, and the old Steinitz is no longer the Steinitz of old."

Although Lasker was widely respected, few people at the time suspected the impact that he would have on chess during the decades to come, for he was no ordinary challenger--this victory marked the beginning of a reign which was to last 27 years.>

---------

I can find no factual errors in this section, but...

The Tarrasch quote is not sourced, so we need to find the source for this quotation. If we can't find it, we can't leave the quotation in.

I made the following style edits in this section:

<back-to-back victories in the 13th and 14th games in Montreal> and <In the 19th game>.

Jul-20-13  crawfb5: <and added four more consecutive victories in the second leg in Philadelphia>

That's <three> in Philly, not four (Games 9-11). I'll dig out what's in the Shipley bio later.

Jul-20-13
Premium Chessgames Member
  WCC Editing Project: Yes quite right <three more>, corrected in the template now. tks B
Jul-20-13
Premium Chessgames Member
  WCC Editing Project: More on Lasker-Steinitz World Championship (1894)

Well I've done a google "exact phrase" search and this is all over the internet:

<The general feeling was that, as Steinitz was 58 years old at this time, Lasker had won the world champion match because of Steinitz's advancing years.

As Tarrasch said,

"In my opinion the match with Steinitz does not have the great importance that they themselves attribute to it. For Steinitz has grown old, and the old Steinitz is no longer the Steinitz of old." >

But not one website reports the original source for the Tarrasch quote.

Obviously people are just copy and pasting this entire block of text from one site to the next. I think whoever wrote our original WCC series just took the end part of the quote and stuck it in the intro. This would also explain why it's not sourced in the intro.

I say we don't use this quote unless we can find out where it came from.

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