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WCC Editing Project
Member since Jul-19-13 · Last seen Aug-24-24
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   WCC Editing Project has kibitzed 3286 times to chessgames   [more...]
   Jun-07-15 Biographer Bistro (replies)
 
WCC Editing Project: <zanzibar: Since I'm an adviser to editors, rather than an editor, I'm unfamiliar with what exactly editors can do.> I want to bring this post to your attention again: Biographer Bistro (kibitz #10966) It explains what editors can do and what not.
 
   May-31-15 chessgames.com chessforum (replies)
 
WCC Editing Project: <chessgames.com> Maybe you overlooked this post Biographer Bistro (kibitz #11028) , since the Bistro has become rather fast-paced. An answer would be interesting to several people.
 
   May-29-15 WCC Editing Project chessforum (replies)
 
WCC Editing Project: <Chessical> Thank you very much for your contribution(s)! We hope that you will support us in the future, also. For sure, you have helped us quite a lot already. The draft in question is already finished and was send away, though. It is still a valuable source and
 
   Apr-01-15 Moscow (1925) (replies)
 
WCC Editing Project: <Capablanca> on his experience at <Moscow 1925>: <"Although very philosophical, very observant and completely dispassionate in my judgment about everything concerning chess and its great exponents, I was nonetheless <<<unable to ...
 
   Mar-08-15 Tabanus chessforum (replies)
 
WCC Editing Project: Ribli - Torre Candidates Quarterfinal (1983) Audiovisual aid: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W8G...
 
   Mar-08-15 Alekhine - Bogoljubov World Championship Match (1929) (replies)
 
WCC Editing Project: <beatgiant> In case you want to read further on this topic, I have prepared a sourced timeline that summarizes the <Alekhine-Capablanca> rematch negotiations from 26 Feb 1929 - March 1935: Game Collection: WCC: Alekhine-Bogoljubov 1934 ARCHIVE
 
   Jan-29-15 suenteus po 147 chessforum (replies)
 
WCC Editing Project: <One Third of the original "Big Three"> I beg your pardon! I'm on vacation in Canada, and I just now saw your post in the WCC forum. By "we" I meant the cg.com biographers, not the WCC project. All of the research compiled for additions to your intro was done by ...
 
   Nov-23-14 R Fuchs vs Tal, 1969 (replies)
 
WCC Editing Project: <MC Scarlett> If so, very very quietly...
 
   Nov-19-14 Alexander Alekhine (replies)
 
WCC Editing Project: <Karpova> Thanks for the correction! That sum makes more sense now in conjunction with the report on the organizers' losses. Good heavens- they can't have made much on ticket sales.
 
   Nov-17-14 E Walther vs Tal, 1966
 
WCC Editing Project: Queen trap Trick or Treat- this game was played on Halloween, 1966.
 
(replies) indicates a reply to the comment.

WCC Editing Project

Kibitzer's Corner
< Earlier Kibitzing  · PAGE 55 OF 127 ·  Later Kibitzing>
Jan-12-14
Premium Chessgames Member
  WCC Editing Project: No worries my dear <Ohio>-

That catch on note 17 was epic.

This is why you get the big money. Although <Tim> says he gets more than you.

Hey! I don't know, that's just what he said.

Jan-12-14
Premium Chessgames Member
  OhioChessFan: I got a 17% raise tonight, so there.
Jan-12-14
Premium Chessgames Member
  WCC Editing Project: heh...

That's in RL right?

Congratulations!

Jan-12-14
Premium Chessgames Member
  OhioChessFan: No, a 17% raise in my CG.C WCC pay.
Jan-12-14
Premium Chessgames Member
  WCC Editing Project: Aha- well I think you deserve twice that in your "land job" given how they overturned your schedule and all.

I think lack of sleep qualifies as a reason for "danger pay."

When my brother worked down the mill, he used to get extra "danger pay" when he had to go in and clean the hoppers.

That's because folks routinely got electrocuted in them, including my brother.

These "safety lamps" sometimes malfunction when you're hosing down a hopper.

Thank GHOD I never had to do that.

Jan-12-14
Premium Chessgames Member
  WCC Editing Project: Oh- 17% of 0 = 0

heh just got the joke now.

Jan-12-14
Premium Chessgames Member
  OhioChessFan: The other person who got overturned now has ulcers.
Jan-12-14  Boomie: ->

I get paid in Albanian kojaks.

Don't be jealous.

Jan-12-14
Premium Chessgames Member
  OhioChessFan: http://i382.photobucket.com/albums/...
Jan-12-14  Boomie: Bucharest 1954

From http://www.thechesslibrary.com/file...

Dates: February 24 - March 26

Source: Di Felice p.337, C. Sericano file, Chess Library archive file

Jan-12-14  Boomie: <WCC>

Oops. You pulled the rug out from under. Post it in the wrong place perhaps?

Jan-13-14
Premium Chessgames Member
  jessicafischerqueen: <Tim> you are truly a wizard.

I was going to be late running back to work from lunch so I bailed on the post, realizing I had put it here instead of in the <Biographer's Bistro> where it belongs.

Thank you so much!

Jan-13-14  Boomie: <you are truly a wizard>

It's not for nothing they call me Big Wiz Boom.

Jan-13-14  Karpova: On Game Collection: WCC: Steinitz-Gunsberg 1890-1891

<Jess: The information from "The Sun" on this date does not say anything about the sourced sentence in your original draft.>

For the sake of completeness, source <16> was the information for <The match was to last 20 games.>. This had become obsolete after using Winter's feature article as a source.

<OCF>

<I don't like the combination of "insinuated" and "likely". Seems redundant.>

I agree with the <likely> being deleted. So <Steinitz labeled the objection "impudent" and insinuated that Mason was drunk when he made it.<12>> it is.

<That's a little unclear. 75 pounds a game or a match?>

75 pounds was Gunsberg's contribution to the prize fund. The stakes were $1,500 and Gunsberg failed to raise his $750, but British amateurs contributed 75 pounds to the prize fund. Perhaps rephrasing: <British amateurs contributed 75 pounds to the prize fund as Gunsberg's share.<16>>

Timeline:

<Steinitz took an early lead with a win in game 2, but Gunsberg pulled ahead after game 5. The match was suspended after game 4 because Steinitz had a bad cold.<19>>

Maybe <Steinitz took an early lead with a win in game 2. The match was suspended after game 4 because Steinitz had a bad cold.<19> Gunsberg pulled ahead after game 5.>

<Interest in the match increased.<20>>

This was after game 6, the 3rd decisive game in a row, so perhaps <Interest in the match increased after game 6,<20> the third consecutive decisive game.>

<Note 17 verifies it was Betts who introduced the players, but doesn't identify him as Club VP.>

That's because in the original he was not identified as the Club VP.

Jan-13-14  Boomie: <Karpova>

I would dele "The match was suspended after game 4 because Steinitz had a bad cold." It doesn't add anything important to the match description.

Jan-13-14  Boomie: <Karpova>

"The match was suspended after game 4 because Steinitz had a bad cold.<19> Interest in the match increased.<20> Steinitz hadn't fully recovered, yet he still won game 6. During this game, Gunsberg exceeded the time limit but Steinitz refused to claim a win.<21> After game 5, Steinitz declared he would play the Queen's Gambit until he won."

Eliminating the reference to Steinitz' cold and arranging in match order:

"Interest in the match increased.<20> After game 5, Steinitz declared he would play the Queen's Gambit until he won. During game 6, Gunsberg exceeded the time limit but Steinitz refused to claim a win. However he won the game anyway<21>"

Jan-13-14
Premium Chessgames Member
  WCC Editing Project: <Karpova>

Game Collection: WCC: Steinitz-Gunsberg 1890-1891

<<Jess: The information from "The Sun" on this date does not say anything about the sourced sentence in your original draft.>

For the sake of completeness, source <16> was the information for <The match was to last 20 games>>

Thank you for the clarification- that helps me to know what happened.

####################

<<That's a little unclear. 75 pounds a game or a match?>

75 pounds was Gunsberg's contribution to the prize fund. The stakes were $1,500 and Gunsberg failed to raise his $750, but British amateurs contributed 75 pounds to the prize fund. Perhaps rephrasing: <British amateurs contributed 75 pounds to the prize fund as Gunsberg's share.<16>>>

I put this sentence in:

"British amateurs contributed 75 pounds towards Gunsberg's share of the prize fund.<16>"

#########################

<<Note 17 verifies it was Betts who introduced the players, but doesn't identify him as Club VP.>

That's because in the original he was not identified as the Club VP.>

Thank you for the clarification- this will help me avoid future errors.

##############################

Timeline:

<<Steinitz took an early lead with a win in game 2, but Gunsberg pulled ahead after game 5. The match was suspended after game 4 because Steinitz had a bad cold.<19>>

Maybe <Steinitz took an early lead with a win in game 2. The match was suspended after game 4 because Steinitz had a bad cold.<19> Gunsberg pulled ahead after game 5.>

<Interest in the match increased.<20>>

This was after game 6, the 3rd decisive game in a row, so perhaps <Interest in the match increased after game 6,<20> the third consecutive decisive game.>>

<Karpova> I'm going to hold off on your suggestion until you have time to evaluate <Boomie's> suggestion.

I disagree with the <learned member from Bellingham> (Boomie) on this point.

I think the fact that <Steinitz> was sick enough to miss a game, and managed to win two games later although still sick, adds greatly to the drama of the story. If this intro were a movie you'd want to leave it in.

I strongly suggest we find a way to leave it in. Imagine the strain on his face and the sweat..

We have the facts- the facts are in and of themselves dramatic and I like the story here.

But this up to <Karpova>.

Jan-13-14
Premium Chessgames Member
  WCC Editing Project: <Tim>

Did you actually secure a copy of the <Kurt Landsberger>? I'm guessing you did if you found the "grain of vat of whiskey" crack eh?

If you do have the book in front of you, and you have the time/inclination, might you carefully check each of the notes from <Landsberger's> book?

I have checked them all twice, but I also checked the internet references twice and <Ohio> found something I missed.

The more of us checking these references the better, since I changed them after <Karpova's> initial draft, and I didn't do a very good job of keeping things in order.

Again, on this and all other subsequent "about to submitted drafts" we cannot let any factual error, or sourcing error, slip by that we could have prevented.

Jan-13-14  Karpova: On Game Collection: WCC: Steinitz-Gunsberg 1890-1891

<Steinitz took an early lead with a win in game 2. The match was suspended after game 4 because Steinitz had a bad cold.<19> Gunsberg pulled ahead after game 5, and interest in the match increased for game 6.<20>>

This is my new suggestion. I think that a cold which halts the match and influences Steinitz' play is worth mentioning, especially if we have a good source. Additionally, a reader may wonder why game 4 was played on the 15th and game 5 on the 18th, and then has the necessary information.

Regarding the increased interest for game 6, there is not really an explanation given in the source, but the match had become more livelier (it started with 2 draws and one decisive game, and was now followed up with two decisive games), and Gunsberg had pulled ahead - in the Intro there is also the observation before <Initially the match received less interest than expected because Steinitz was considered a prohibitive favorite [...]> , so considering this, I think that it does make senseto keep it that way. First, it looked like a one-sided affair, but then the underdog pulls ahead.

Regarding the timeline game 6, 5 and 7 - the reason is that game 5 is merely supplementary information for game 7, because that's when Steinitz declared to play the Queen's Gambit until he won with it, and not an out of the timeline description of game 5. I do think that such promises, together with the Evans Gambit theoretical discussion are important, because they give an insight into how the match was conducted. Today, this would be unimaginable, but it tells us something about the contestants and their approach to chess. Furthermore, we have good sources for it.

Jan-13-14
Premium Chessgames Member
  WCC Editing Project: <Karpova>

Excellent.

Ok here is the text right now:

<The match was suspended after game 4 because Steinitz had a bad cold.<19> Interest in the match increased.<20> Steinitz hadn't fully recovered, yet he still won game 6. During this game, Gunsberg exceeded the time limit but Steinitz refused to claim a win.<21> After game 5, Steinitz declared he would play the Queen's Gambit until he won.<22>>

<Karpova>, here is your latest suggestion:

<Steinitz took an early lead with a win in game 2. The match was suspended after game 4 because Steinitz had a bad cold.<19> Gunsberg pulled ahead after game 5, and interest in the match increased for game 6.<20>>

I propose keeping all of the information and just putting it in chronological order.

Maybe-

"The match was suspended after game 4 because Steinitz had a bad cold.<19> Interest in the match increased.<20> In game 5 Steinitz lost with the white pieces in a Queen's gambit, after which he vowed to keep playing this opening until he won with it.<22> Still not recovered from his cold, Steinitz managed to win game 6. During this game, Gunsberg exceeded the time limit but Steinitz refused to claim a win.<21>"

Jan-13-14  Karpova: <Jess>

Your suggestion looks fine, except for the increased interest - as this was noted for game 6, it needs to be behind game 5, so

"The match was suspended after game 4 because Steinitz had a bad cold.<19> In game 5 Steinitz lost with the white pieces in a Queen's gambit, after which he vowed to keep playing this opening until he won with it.<22> With Gunsberg having pulled ahead, interest in the match increased.<20> Still not fully recovered from his cold, Steinitz managed to win game 6. During this game, Gunsberg exceeded the time limit but Steinitz refused to claim a win.<21>"

Jan-13-14  Boomie: <Karpova: Regarding the increased interest for game 6, there is not really an explanation given in the source.>

I believe this was to contrast with an earlier statement that said there wasn't much interest in the match because Steinitz was expect to rout Gunsberg. In fact, it might help to include this as it explains the reason for the increase - Gunsberg was putting up a fight.

Jan-13-14  Boomie: <Myatollah: Did you actually secure a copy of the <Kurt Landsberger>?>

Yez'm. And I'm finding it a real labor of love on Kurt's part.

<carefully check each of the notes>

OK, although I'm not a detail man and am quite negligent by nature. In a nutshell, I'm all style, no substance. But I'll take a swing at those pesky notes.

Jan-13-14
Premium Chessgames Member
  WCC Editing Project: <Karpova>

I love it:

<"The match was suspended after game 4 because Steinitz had a bad cold.<19> In game 5 Steinitz lost with the white pieces in a Queen's gambit, after which he vowed to keep playing this opening until he won with it.<22> With Gunsberg having pulled ahead, interest in the match increased.<20> Still not fully recovered from his cold, Steinitz managed to win game 6. During this game, Gunsberg exceeded the time limit but Steinitz refused to claim a win.<21>">

I suggest only one change:

<"With Gunsberg pulling ahead,">

instead of

<"With Gunsberg having pulled ahead,">

It's cleaner and still grammatically correct.

#######################

<Honorable Member for the Skagit Valley and other locations not quite Blown up by Mt.St. Helens>

Thank you sir!

And yes I'm guessing you will enjoy all of the tasty <Kurt Hamburger> as well. What a character this Steinitz was- one of the most interesting of our historical masters, in my view. I think the biography is excellent.

Jan-13-14  Karpova: <Jess>

I agree with your suggestion <With Gunsberg pulling ahead,>

The source numbers have to be changed then,

with <22> becoming <20>,

<20> becoming <21>

and <21> becoming <22>.

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