< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 63 OF 127 ·
Later Kibitzing> |
Jan-27-14
 | | WCC Editing Project: <Karpova>
On the first point, I never had any problem understanding the original construction, because it's obvious that "he" refers to <Lasker>. <Lasker published the proposed conditions, 11 which Capablanca said were unacceptable in a private letter to the champion.12 After Lasker had published a commentary on the conditions in the press, 13 Capablanca sent him another private letter asking "But why should <<<he>>> not play me on the same terms that he has granted to all other aspirants for his title?"> That said, I think your idea here is an improvement-
<A possibilty is to say "issued a statement to Dr. Lasker" instead of "sent him another private letter"> I don't think it's necessary to expand this further by explaining the name and role of the intermediary. #######################
On the second point, I think that
<The winner will be the first to get 8 points, draws not counting. If nobody reaches this goal, the winner will be the one with the most points after 24 games.> is good, and that it's worth widening the meaning. Do you want me to put it in? |
|
Jan-27-14 | | Karpova: <Jess>
I think we should make both changes, the first one:
<After Lasker had published a commentary on the conditions in the press, 13 Capablanca issued a statement to him asking "But why should he not play me on the same terms that he has granted to all other aspirants for his title?" 14> (should there be a point behind " and before 14?) and also
<The winner will be the first to get 8 points, draws not counting. If nobody reaches this goal, the winner will be the one with the most points after 24 games.> |
|
Jan-27-14
 | | WCC Editing Project: <Karpova>
Game Collection: WCC: Lasker-Capablanca 1921 heh-"space" not "point." And no there shouldn't be so I filled it in, thanks for spotting the error. Maybe you know "point" means "period at the end of a sentence" in French. But in Quebec we pronounced it "Pwaaanght" and really loud too. Anyways I made both edits you requested.
######################
Thanks also to <Ohio> for spotting the "Queen's gambit" and to <Daniel> for so quickly fixing it to "Queen's Gambit." Steinitz-Gunsberg World Championship Match (1890)
###########################
<Steamed Team>
And here's what I did in our Profile, and will continue to do- list "Promoted draft", keep the mirror, and then list the new WCC Page beneath it, as here: ===
<Promoted Draft>
Game Collection: WCC: Steinitz-Gunsberg 1890-1891 Steinitz-Gunsberg World Championship Match (1890)
===
News update- <Daniel> is aware of the incorrect "1890" date and he is trying to find a way to fix it. He said it would be difficult due to a CODING issue, but that he would try to solve the problem. |
|
Jan-27-14 | | Boomie: <WCC: And here's what I did in our Profile, and will continue to do- list "Promoted draft", keep the mirror, and then list the new WCC Page beneath it, as here...> Just to be extra annoying and show my low IQ, does "Promoted draft" mean "Work on this version?" If not, how do we tell which one we should massage? |
|
Jan-27-14
 | | WCC Editing Project: <4th and goal, Tim for the trick play> You're never annoying.
"Promoted" means it's now an official page. Here is our first official page: Steinitz-Gunsberg World Championship Match (1890)
Don't work on the actual draft we made labeled "promoted"- that's just for our archive, since it contains tons of valuable data we, or anyone else, is welcome to use in the future. So don't work on a "Promoted Draft" like this one here, because it's finished and now turned into a Princess: Game Collection: WCC: Steinitz-Gunsberg 1890-1891 <Tim> this here is the draft we are going to promote next, so it's probably the most important to work on at the moment: Game Collection: WCC: Lasker-Capablanca 1921 I have to go to Canada on Feb 8, so I won't be submitting this draft to <Daniel> for "promotion" until a few days after that, at the earliest. So there's plenty of time to check everything out before we submit it. Whilst doing so, and to save time, take a good close look at our first official draft here- Steinitz-Gunsberg World Championship Match (1890)- because the conventions on this page are the same conventions we will use on all subsequent drafts. |
|
Jan-28-14 | | Boomie: <Karpova>
Game Collection: WCC: Lasker-Capablanca 1921 <Later, he spent time in the USA to finish his education, but left college in 1910 and concentrated more fully on chess.> "Later" is not needed since we can assume he didn't go to college earlier...heh. We might want to include the name of the college (Columbia?) For example:
"He attended Columbia University in New York City but left in 1910 to concentrate on chess." |
|
Jan-28-14
 | | WCC Editing Project: <Steamed Carp>
I like <BOOMIE'S> sentence better, but isn't there an Edward Winter Chessnote saying that no actual academic records exist of where, and when, exactly, that <Capablanca> attended college in the US? On the other hand there is a photo of him on a college baseball team. I may be remembering a ghost, so pardon me if I'm off base here. |
|
Jan-28-14 | | Boomie: <Ayatollyaso>
If he played baseball at Columbia, he was in good company. That was Lou Gehrig's alma mater. Hard to believe that with everything written about Capa, nobody verified his school record. |
|
Jan-28-14 | | Karpova: Capablanca's US education:
C.N. 6378, Link: http://www.chesshistory.com/winter/... <In 1904 Capablanca entered Woodycliff School in South Orange, NJ.Y> <In C.N. 3333 we added that in 1906 Capablanca was attending Groff School, 228 W 72 Street, New York.> <Capablanca’s university record (he was a non-graduate in engineering in the Class of 1910, although we are not sure exactly when the course was broken off) is mentioned on page 134 of the Columbia University Alumni Register 1754-1931 (New York, 1932)> Baseball team picture: C.N. 5108, Link: http://www.chesshistory.com/winter/... |
|
Jan-28-14 | | Karpova: On Game Collection: WCC: Lasker-Capablanca 1921 So perhaps we may change
<Later, he spent time in the USA to finish his education, but left college in 1910 and concentrated more fully on chess.3> to <He went the USA to finish his education, but left Columbia University in 1910 and concentrated more fully on chess.3> |
|
Jan-28-14
 | | OhioChessFan: "more fully" strikes me as redundant. Surely that is incumbent in the meaning of "concentrated". I also think it reads better with "to concentrate". I prefer "He went to(It's a word longer, but "spent time in" does sound a touch better to my ears, though not a big deal at all)the USA to finish his education, but left Columbia University in 1910 to concentrate on chess." |
|
Jan-28-14
 | | WCC Editing Project: <Karpova>
Excellent work pulling in the relevant <Chessnote 6378>. I added that to the mirror, where it will now be forever at everyone's fingertips. ########################
Game Collection: WCC: Lasker-Capablanca 1921 I think your latest sentence with a slightly altered <Ohio> suggestion added makes for the cleanest and clearest version yet- I particularly like the actual name of the University, with proof at hand to back it up too: <He went to the USA to finish his education, but left Columbia University in 1910 to concentrate more on chess.> I think it's important to keep the "more" to indicate that he was never in fact "not concentrating" on chess, ever since he was a small child. It also signals his change in focus away from academics and towards more serious chess activity, which is what actually happened. |
|
Jan-28-14 | | Boomie: <WCC: Columbia University> Will the Kazaks, Uzbeks, and Armenians know where Columbia is? My version succinctly says the same thing with the added bonus of showing that CU is in NYC. Adding the "more" qualifier:
"He attended Columbia University in New York City but left in 1910 to concentrate more on chess." |
|
Jan-28-14
 | | WCC Editing Project: <Tim>
Yep, this is much the best so far, in my view:
<"He attended Columbia University in New York City but left in 1910 to concentrate more on chess."> Beautiful English.
Are you from England, by any chance? |
|
Jan-28-14 | | Karpova: On Game Collection: WCC: Lasker-Capablanca 1921 I suggest <He went to the USA to finish his education, but left Columbia University in 1910 and concentrated more on chess.> While I agree that <to concentrate> sounds nicer, content matter more than style. In this case, the formulation <to concentrate more on chess> implies that this was his motivation to leave Columbia University without a degree. So we would need a reliable source to corroborate that. I'm not sure if this is worth it, as then all the footnotes would have to be changed. Furthermore, as the USA is mentioned, is it necessary to make clear that the CU is in New York City? Is there any other CU in the USA? I thought about adding that he went to New York State to finish his education (instead of USA in the above statement), but the Woodycliff School is in New Jersey. We should also keep in mind that, while Capablanca also played chess during that time, his parents wanted him to have an education. When leaving CU, he basically decided in favor of a professional chess career (again, that this was his motivation we would have to prove first). This is the background of <and concentrated more>. While it is certainly tempting to assume that his love for chess was his motif, what would be needed is a statement of Capablanca or a close associate that this was the case, in order to include it in the Intro. (As he later became a "diplomat", his financial status was markedly different from that of the other professional chessplayers, who didn't receive such a kind of state-funding.) |
|
Jan-28-14
 | | WCC Editing Project: <Karpova>
Game Collection: WCC: Lasker-Capablanca 1921 I'm going to put your decision in the mirror now:
<He went to the USA to finish his education, but left Columbia University in 1910 and concentrated more on chess.> |
|
Jan-28-14
 | | WCC Editing Project:
<Furthermore, as the USA is mentioned, is it necessary to make clear that the CU is in New York City?> In my view, no, it isn't. I think your choice on the new sentence is perfectly fine as is. |
|
Jan-28-14 | | Boomie: <Karpova>
Capa was encourage by the utter demolition of Marshall in their 1909 match. That told him he was a top ten player at least. I'm not sure Capa loved chess. I've read that he played because he was good at it. He loved the idea of being successful at something. We can't assume that people around the world know anything about Columbia U. including, sadly, Americans. I like including the city because it adds value to the sentence. I'm not sure if the concept of "value added" can be applied to grammar however. |
|
Jan-28-14 | | Boomie: - <WCC Editing Project: Are you from England, by any chance?> Pip, pip, and all that rot.
Everything is tiggity-boo. |
|
Jan-28-14
 | | WCC Editing Project: <Tim>
We don't need to assume anyone knows or doesn't know about <British Columbia University>. 1. It's not relevant to this draft which city it's in. 2. Anyone who wanted to find out where, or what, it is for that matter, could Google it in .013 seconds. It's not worth interrupting a currently fine sentence to include the <New Yawk> information. One punter's opinion.
But it's <Karpova's> opinion that matters most here. |
|
Jan-28-14 | | Karpova: <Boomie>
To cite Capablanca: <[...] my love for the game had become a passion.> (that's from source <"2>, after the brain doctor said that the young Jose Raul should be prohibited from playing chess.). But this is not to the point anyway, as we shouldn't guess why he left CU without a degree. But guessing is all we can without a source for what his motif was. A source would be a statement by Capablanca or a close associate, clearly saying that he left CU for chess. Without that, it is a mere guess. And I seriously doubt that introducing a hypothesis like <possibly to concentrate more on chess> would be an improvement. I'm not sure how much information about the Columbia University is necessary in an Intro on the 1921 WC match, which has to include Capablanca's first challenge to Dr. Lasker and the whole Rubinstein issue. |
|
Jan-28-14
 | | OhioChessFan: <But guessing is all we can without a source for what his motif was. A source would be a statement by Capablanca or a close associate, clearly saying that he left CU for chess. Without that, it is a mere guess. And I seriously doubt that introducing a hypothesis like <possibly to concentrate more on chess> would be an improvement.> Are we assuming that finishing a 4 year college = finishing an education? If he'd graduated, would that mean he finished his education, although he didn't get a PhD? |
|
Jan-28-14
 | | OhioChessFan: Can we soften up the "but"? Untone and unfirm it somehow? I'm trying to work in "although"......not getting anywhere, but the suggestion is there for someone else to try. If there is not a nexus between leaving college and focusing on chess, then the thought almost has to be expressed in two sentences. Anyway, the "to concentrate" formulation sounds light years better to my ear than the "and concentrated". |
|
Jan-28-14
 | | OhioChessFan: <He went to the USA to finish his education, but left Columbia University in 1910 to concentrate more on chess.>
<I think it's important to keep the "more" to indicate that he was never in fact "not concentrating" on chess,> I don't like the "more" at all. We're talking about Capa, after all. As mentioned in the groundbreaking book "Cultural Literacy", an author must ascribe to the reader <some> level of familiarity with the topic under discussion. <He went to the USA to finish his education, but left Columbia University in 1910 and concentrated more on chess.> No. |
|
Jan-28-14
 | | OhioChessFan: Did he leave college to become a professional chess player? He went to the USA to finish his education, although he left Columbia University in 1910 and pursued a career in chess. He went to the USA to finish his education, but left Columbia University in 1910 and focused on his chess career. He went to the USA to finish his education, although(but) he left Columbia Unversity in 1910 before graduating, and concentrated on chess. |
|
 |
 |
< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 63 OF 127 ·
Later Kibitzing> |