< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 66 OF 127 ·
Later Kibitzing> |
Jan-30-14 | | Karpova: On Game Collection: WCC: Lasker-Capablanca 1921 <OCF>
Capablanca moved in 1904 to the USA, so perhaps <Capablanca moved to the USA in 1904 to finish his education, although he left Columbia University in 1910 without a degree, and pursued a career in chess.3> ? This <Capablanca drew up a new set of rules for the world championship during St Petersburg (1914), where he finished second to Lasker by a half point.25> sounds fine. What about this? <Before Capablanca had even played his first European tournament, Leon Paredes suggested to Lasker that he play a match with the Cuban, but Lasker declined.> The info when Paredes wrote to Lasker is not given, just that it was prior to San Sebastian. As San Sebastian gets a special treatment later, I don't think that new infos should be added to that sentence. <Rubinstein had lost his financial support.......and?> That's why he never got a chance to play for the WC after WWI. These changes are okay:
<The Cuban didn't want to become champion that way.30> and <If neither player reached that goal, the one with more points after 24 games would win.> I would suggest <Lasker would receive $11,000 and Capablanca $9,000 of the $20,000 purse. An additional $5,000 was donated after five games had been completed, with $3,000 going to the winner and $2,000 to the loser.> I don't think that the text should be cluttered up with the info that the <Commission for the encouragement of touring throughout Cuba> donated that money. |
|
Jan-30-14 | | Boomie: <Karpova>
<Capablanca moved to the USA in 1904 to finish his education, although he left Columbia University in 1910 without a degree, and pursued a career in chess.3> This may work better as two sentences. Also I prefer "continue" to "finish". "Capablanca moved to the USA in 1904 to continue his education. He left Columbia University in 1910 without a degree and pursued a career in chess.3" |
|
Jan-30-14
 | | WCC Editing Project: <Karpova>
Game Collection: WCC: Lasker-Capablanca 1921 Do you want me to add these to the Mirror?
<The Cuban didn't want to become champion that way.30> ####################
<If neither player reached that goal, the one with more points after 24 games would win.> ##################
<Lasker would receive $11,000 and Capablanca $9,000 of the $20,000 purse. An additional $5,000 was donated after five games had been completed, with $3,000 going to the winner and $2,000 to the loser.> |
|
Jan-30-14 | | Karpova: <Jess: Do you want me to add these to the Mirror?> Yes.
<Boomie>
The two sentence version looks good, but why is <continue> better than <finish>? Again from Winter, p. 10: Between 1898 and 1904, he went to school at the Instituto de Matanzas, preparing for his bachillerato. And in 1904 Capablanca went to the US <to complete his education>. So while <continue> emphasizes the past so to speak (i. e. that he had gone to school before), <finish> emphasizes the future and the aim (being educated at university level) to be ready for professional life. That's why I prefer <finish>. Perhaps <complete> could be an alternative. |
|
Jan-30-14
 | | WCC Editing Project: <Steamed Clams>
Game Collection: WCC: Lasker-Capablanca 1921 Ok be advised all three of these edits are now in the Mirror- remember always to edit from the text that's actually in the current Mirror Draft. <The Cuban didn't want to become champion that way.30> ####################
<If neither player reached that goal, the one with more points after 24 games would win.> ##################
<Lasker would receive $11,000 and Capablanca $9,000 of the $20,000 purse. An additional $5,000 was donated after five games had been completed, with $3,000 going to the winner and $2,000 to the loser.> |
|
Jan-30-14
 | | WCC Editing Project: Oh <Oh><Hio> I forgot to mention something and thank you again for your marvelous "letter to the webmaster." I did indeed email that to <Daniel> with proper accreditation. I told him I wrote it oh wait... No I said you wrote it. It was "well received" as they say in the Shipping and Receiving trade. <Daniel> kindly told me/us not to worry, that he wouldn't change anything on our new official WCC Webpages without telling us first what he wanted to do. Good letter, that. I'm going to keep your letter in our profile for the same reason I never go anywhere without a hand grenade. "Just in case." |
|
Jan-30-14
 | | OhioChessFan: <Before Capablanca had even played his first European tournament, Leon Paredes suggested to Lasker that he play a match with the Cuban, but Lasker declined.> Like it.
<Rubinstein had lost his financial support.......and?> <That's why he never got a chance to play for the WC after WWI.> Then that should be stated there. Otherwise, the <Rubentein had lost...> sentence is an orphan. <I don't think that the text should be cluttered up with the info that the <Commission for the encouragement of touring throughout Cuba> donated that money.> Yuck. What a boring name. But I think <some> clarification is called for. Maybe "by a Cuban tourism group"? I like the rest of the mirror on that issue. <Capablanca moved to the USA to finish his education, although he left Columbia University in 1910 without a degree, and pursued a career in chess.> I like "continue" there.
Boomtown's suggestion: <"Capablanca moved to the USA in 1904 to continue his education. He left Columbia University in 1910 without a degree and pursued a career in chess.3> I like "continue". I am okay with the two sentences, but it needs a transition word between "education" and "He". Maybe "However"? To muddy the waters, <if> "However" is used, it seems to follow a "finish" better than it follows a "continue". How about splitting the difference with "complete"? |
|
Jan-30-14
 | | OhioChessFan: I'm having trouble with that one. In the one sentence construction, the comma serves as a transition. In the two sentence construction, I think a transition word is needed. But I don't like sentences that start with "However", so that doesn't thrill me. Ideas? |
|
Jan-30-14 | | Karpova: On Game Collection: WCC: Lasker-Capablanca 1921 I suggest the following change:
How it is:
<Yet Rubinstein still had a contract and felt left out. He even suggested a triangular tournament to determine the champion.27 Capablanca declared that he would accept a challenge from him, should he win the title.25 But Rubinstein had lost his basis of financial support in Europe.27> My suggestion:
<Yet Rubinstein still had a contract and felt left out. He even suggested a triangular tournament to determine the champion. But Rubinstein had lost his basis of financial support in post-war Europe. He was never again able to meet the financial requirements of a title match,27 although Capablanca declared that he would accept a challenge from him, should he win the title.25> |
|
Jan-30-14 | | Karpova: On Game Collection: WCC: Lasker-Capablanca 1921 Maybe
<Capablanca moved to the USA in 1904 to complete his education. However, he left Columbia University in 1910 without a degree and pursued a career in chess.3> |
|
Jan-30-14 | | Boomie: <Karpova>
<Capablanca moved to the USA in 1904 to complete his education. However, he left Columbia University in 1910 without a degree and pursued a career in chess.3> Looks good to me. |
|
Jan-30-14
 | | OhioChessFan: <Capablanca moved to the USA in 1904 to complete his education. However, he left Columbia University in 1910 without a degree and pursued a career in chess.> Okay, the change in thought justifies the "however". Barely. I haven't come up with anything better. <Yet Rubinstein still had a contract and felt left out. He even suggested a triangular tournament to determine the champion. But Rubinstein had lost his basis of financial support in post-war Europe. He was never again able to meet the financial requirements of a title match,27 although Capablanca declared that he would accept a challenge from him, should he win the title.25> Good. Might be able to slice a word or two out of it, but it's good as is. |
|
Jan-30-14
 | | WCC Editing Project:
What a tremendous editing team!
<Karpova> when you decide on which versions of the latest edit ideas you want put in the mirror, just let me know. |
|
Jan-31-14 | | Karpova: On Game Collection: WCC: Lasker-Capablanca 1921 Let's put this one in:
<Capablanca moved to the USA in 1904 to complete his education. However, he left Columbia University in 1910 without a degree and pursued a career in chess.3> another question regarding <Yet Rubinstein still had a contract and felt left out. He even suggested a triangular tournament to determine the champion. But Rubinstein had lost his basis of financial support in post-war Europe. He was never again able to meet the financial requirements of a title match,27 although Capablanca declared that he would accept a challenge from him, should he win the title.25> I suggest another change:
<Yet Rubinstein still had a contract and felt left out. He even suggested a triangular tournament to determine the champion. But Rubinstein had lost his basis of financial support in post-war Europe.27 Capablanca declared that he would accept a challenge from him, should he win the title.25> The background is the challenge to Lasker, not to Capablanca. It is true that the financial situation didn't become better and Rubinstein couldn't fund a title match against Capablanca, whose first challenger he was. Do you think that it is clear from the above, that Rubinstein had a contract with Lasker, but no financial basis - Capablanca on the other hand had and Lasker decided to play a match against him then? And that then Capablanca assured Rubinstein, that he would be the first to get a shot at his title, if he won the match? |
|
Jan-31-14
 | | WCC Editing Project: <Karpova>
Game Collection: WCC: Lasker-Capablanca 1921 I put <Capablanca moved to the USA in 1904 to complete his education. However, he left Columbia University in 1910 without a degree and pursued a career in chess.3> in the mirror. |
|
Jan-31-14
 | | OhioChessFan: <Yet Rubinstein still had a contract and felt left out. He even suggested a triangular tournament to determine the champion. But Rubinstein had lost his basis of financial support in post-war Europe.27 Capablanca declared that he would accept a challenge from him, should he win the title.25> <Karpova: The background is the challenge to Lasker, not to Capablanca. It is true that the financial situation didn't become better and Rubinstein couldn't fund a title match against Capablanca, whose first challenger he was. Do you think that it is clear from the above, that Rubinstein had a contract with Lasker, but no financial basis - Capablanca on the other hand had and Lasker decided to play a match against him then? And that then Capablanca assured Rubinstein, that he would be the first to get a shot at his title, if he won the match?> No. He still needed the financial backing, Capa's promises of a match notwithstanding, and that point is obscured in this reworking. I understand the point of emphasis you want to make, and that isn't quite made in the previous working. Thinking about it..... |
|
Jan-31-14
 | | OhioChessFan: First thought. These two thoughts should be reversed. <He was never again able to meet the financial requirements of a title match,27 although Capablanca declared that he would accept a challenge from him, should he win the title.> Maybe..."Capablanca declared that he would accept a challenge from him, should he win the title, but he was never again able to meet the financial requirements of a title match." Not 100% on board with that one either. Off to work. |
|
Jan-31-14 | | dakgootje: <"Capablanca declared that he would accept a challenge from him, should he win the title, but he was never again able to meet the financial requirements of a title match.> Who is the last 'he' (the one never again able to meet the financial requirements)? From previous excerpts I thought it was Rubinstein, but this implies Capablanca instead. |
|
Jan-31-14
 | | SwitchingQuylthulg: "Capablanca declared that, should he win the title, he would accept a challenge from Rubinstein. But Rubinstein could never again find sufficient financial backing." "Capablanca declared that, should he win the title, he would accept a challenge from Rubinstein, but the Pole could never again find sufficient financial backing." |
|
Jan-31-14 | | Karpova: Thanks for the suggestions, but apparently I did not make my point clear enough. Sorry for that. In this case, the whole WC funding is restricted to the Rubinstein-Lasker WC match. It went the following way:
1) Rubinstein challenges Lasker, the latter accepts
2) Title match arranged for autumn 1914
3) WWI cancels match
4) War-ravaged Europe: Rubinstein still having contract but financial misery affecting Lasker and him 5) Capablanca has the financial backing and challenges Lasker 6) Lasker agrees, and Rubinstein is left out
7) Capablanca promises to Rubinstein that the first title challenge, should Capablanca win the match, is reserved for Rubinstein And in this part, I do not want to go further than that. As the later events concerning the inability of Rubinstein, Nimzowitsch and for a long time Alekhine to raise the funds for a Capablanca match go beyond that. The narrative shall stop with Capablanca being crowned WC. All of what comes later belongs into the 1927 Intro. That's why I suggested
<Yet Rubinstein still had a contract and felt left out. He even suggested a triangular tournament to determine the champion. But Rubinstein had lost his basis of financial support in post-war Europe.27 Capablanca declared that he would accept a challenge from him, should he win the title.25> The <financial support> remark is only restricted to a title match against Lasker and in no way to the later Capablanca challenge (I want to leave that out). So I try to convey the information that Capablanca offered him the first challenge after a possible title match win. And now I wonder how to best connect these two statements (1) <But Rubinstein had lost his basis of financial support in post-war Europe.27> (2) <Capablanca declared that he would accept a challenge from him, should he win the title.25>, so that no wrong impression is created. |
|
Jan-31-14
 | | SwitchingQuylthulg: <Karpova> OK.
It's not made entirely clear why Rubinstein's suggested triangular tournament didn't happen. Was it that Lasker (and/or Capablanca) thought it was silly, or was it just because he couldn't find the $$$? In the latter case, this might work....
<After the war, Capablanca considered himself, Lasker and Rubinstein to be the strongest players.25 Capablanca published "My Chess Career" to convince the public of his right to a challenge.26 Yet Rubinstein still had a contract and felt left out. He even suggested a triangular tournament to determine the champion, but he no longer had sufficient financial support.27 Capablanca declared that, should he win the title, he would accept a challenge from Rubinstein.25> |
|
Jan-31-14
 | | SwitchingQuylthulg: <Karpova: And in this part, I do not want to go further than that. As the later events concerning the inability of Rubinstein, Nimzowitsch and for a long time Alekhine to raise the funds for a Capablanca match go beyond that. The narrative shall stop with Capablanca being crowned WC. All of what comes later belongs into the 1927 Intro.> That leaves a hanging thread, though - the reader is left wondering why the Rubinstein-Capablanca match never happened. Yes, he'll find the answer in the 1927 intro, but I don't feel an explanatory footnote in this intro would be amiss. Or do you think putting things other than references into footnotes is a bad idea? |
|
Jan-31-14 | | Karpova: <Switch: It's not made entirely clear why Rubinstein's suggested triangular tournament didn't happen.> I don't know why. Rubinstein made that suggestion in an interview with a newspaper, so there were probably not even negotiations. Comparable probably to <Capablanca suggested a world championship tournament 23 and hoped for a match in 1915.24> In Europe neither such a tournament nor a title match could have been financed, so I wouldn't want to narrow it down to the triangular tournament suggestion. But the suggestion shows that Akiva tried to stay in the game. Perhaps something like that:
<Yet Rubinstein still had a contract and felt left out. He even suggested a triangular tournament to determine the champion. But Rubinstein had lost his basis of financial support in post-war Europe,27 and Capablanca became Lasker's main rival. However, the Cuban declared that he would accept a challenge from Rubinstein, should he win the title.25> |
|
Jan-31-14 | | Karpova: <Switch>
I don't think that extra information in the footnotes are a bad thing. But I do not necessarily regard it as a problem, if the reader doesn't know: 1) It preserves the structure, going from one match to another, starting with the prior match and ending with the crowning of a new/old champion. 2) It induces the reader to have a look at the next intro, to see for example what happened to Rubinstein's challenge to Capablanca. |
|
Jan-31-14
 | | OhioChessFan: <And in this part, I do not want to go further than that. As the later events concerning the inability of Rubinstein, Nimzowitsch and for a long time Alekhine to raise the funds for a Capablanca match go beyond that. The narrative shall stop with Capablanca being crowned WC. All of what comes later belongs into the 1927 Intro.> Then we're back to this sentence: <But Rubinstein had lost his basis of financial support in post-war Europe.>
being an orphan. |
|
 |
 |
< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 66 OF 127 ·
Later Kibitzing> |
|
|
|