Given: <The intended purpose of the Self-Administration feature is to allow certain users to exercise editorial control over the discussions on their player page, but not to terminate the on-topic discussion entirely, nor to prevent normal discussion.>

Hi Richard, sorry to hear about plug-in problems. First of all if you haven't seen it yet, check out our Viewer Help Page page.

Usually the problem has to do with your browser insisting that you use the latest version of Java. To do that I would suggest going to http://www.java.com/ and install the latest version (follow the big red button.)

I would find that very much more useful than the full ignore option, particularly since locking unwelcome guests out of my forum is the only reason I ever populate my ignore list, now and then. But even these posters I don't really want to ignore; I just don't want them posting in my forum, and currently that's the only way of keeping them out.

I do remember that adding a whole range of extra "user groups" has been discussed here time and again, but that's always been very idle talk, with nobody seeming to feel much urgency about it. Which is ok, but this particular extra option is something I would really love to see somewhat sooner. ;)

*

On the other subject, Self-Administered player pages... hmm, that gets a bit sticky. Well, more than a bit sticky. Deleting User: Obnoxious Jerk (that's a real user??!) is understandable, but censorship of any criticism, even if and when valid... well, what would Wikipedia look like if every page subject who so wished, would be allowed to control their page?

I do like the statement of purpose and override clauses in your documentation, very much, but are they really upheld? Is anybody actually keeping an eye on what gets deleted from these pages? How should any users who feel their posts were deleted unfairly, go about addressing the issue?

And the ignore list being enabled for player pages creates an additional problem... while you can see a log of deleted posts, to hint of a problem with a player who may be abusing their administrative rights, there can be no log for posts that could never be written in the first place.

If I recall, somebody brought up the notion of an ignore list that only goes into effect for the live game page. Your idea of a forum-only ignore is equally valid. I can imagine some people wanting a "Kibitzer's Cafe only" ignore list as well. It's not a bad idea, but the main problem with extra "user groups" is the complexity of it: not just on our end but for the members as well.

<censorship of any criticism, even if and when valid... well, what would Wikipedia look like if every page subject who so wished, would be allowed to control their page?>

When it comes to lower tier players we really don't care very much what they delete or don't delete, but thankfully we've not seen that be a problem with the pages of the notable GMs.

There are of course isolated exceptions. Once we were approached by a GM who basically said "delete everything posted on my page." Due to the nature of what was being posted there I felt sympathy for him, but still I had to flatly refuse his request. As a compromise, I offered to either let me delete what I deemed inappropriate, or alternately I would give him administrative ability with the condition that he only deletes the posts that could truly be construed as libelous. He opted to do the job himself, and after reviewing what he deleted I have to say he used his power very judiciously. Had I done it myself I probably would have gone even further.

<Is anybody actually keeping an eye on what gets deleted from these pages?>

We look at it from time to time, at least for the GM level players. You'd be surprised at how open most GMs are, even with people who are obviously trolling them. As you know a few GMs are magnets for controversy, but even in those cases I'm not seeing people get ignored for just bringing up a sore subject.

<How should any users who feel their posts were deleted unfairly, go about addressing the issue?>

That's a very good point. If that happens to somebody we'd sincerely like to hear about it--but please, only privately: chess@chessgames.com

Thanks for the detailed answers. :)

Might it be possible to link this here directly on to the CG.com front page?

Tournament Index

Maybe put it in the context of this paragraph:

<· Our New Tournaments now displays the latest chess events added by our staff, plus historical tournaments being organized by members. This allows us to have kibiziting on famous historical events such as Hastings (1895) and AVRO (1938).>

Maybe just add on to the existing text, <"Here is a chronological list of these historical tournaments and matches: Tournament Index">

I actually know where it is, and it still takes me three "mouse clicks" to get to it from the front page.

I know you already have it linked on the bottom bar of every web page (which is bloody marvelous, pardon my French), but a lot of punters, particularly people driving by, may often only look at our <front page>, not bothering to look down at the menu on the bottom of the screen.

Also, by putting this in with the existing paragraph on <New Tournaments>, punters will know exactly what this <Tournament Index> actually is- a historical document from the dawn of man until today, arranged in handy chronological order.

This is an invaluable feature, which as you know represents over 25 million "man hours" of work.

Anyways it's one of the most vital resources for chess historians available- anywhere.

Have you considered implementing some functionality for copying links to post on cg.com pages?

As it is, in order to get a link correct, I have to do the following:

1. Select "view source" from a pull-down menu in my browser to get the source code of the page in question.

2. Copy and paste the entire source into frogbert's (User: frogbert) "cg.com page unparser" on the following webpage:

http://chess.liverating.org/postcon...

3. Copy the link to the relevant post from the new page generated by the unparser.

Have you considered implementing some functionality for copying links to post on cg.com pages?>

Here's another way (accessible to premium members):

1. Go to the Search Kibitzing page and type in a search string that will find the post in question.

2. When the search results appear, find the post you want, and right-click on the forum name (to the left). This should bring up a menu where you can select "Copy shortcut" (or similar) that will copy the link you desire to the clipboard.

Still a clunky method, but maybe a bit simpler than what you've been doing.

~~~~~

<area shape=rect coords="9,21,62,40" href="/index.html"> <area shape=rect coords="65,21,118,40" href="/perl/chessnew"> <area shape=rect coords="121,21,174,40" href="/perl/chessuser"> <area shape=rect coords="177,21,230,40" href="/chesshelp.html">

However:

- Personally, I think having the "Search" button take you to 'Search kibitzing' would be useful and intuitive. I do understand that since it's a premium feature, you may not want to have it pop up a message saying "You must become a premium member to search kibitzing" for non-premium members.

- As it is, you may as well re-label that button to 'Home', IMO. It seems funny to click on a "Search" button that takes you home -- especially if you're already on the home page.

Since that time a new wrinkle came to light. We have these redirecting links (like the one I used above) which serve as permalinks. But to use these requires a bit of finesse on the part of the end user. If presented as-is, many people will make the mistake of clicking on the permalink, then going to the location bar, selecting the URL then do a "copy". Well that technique usually works to copy a URL, it won't work for URLs that trigger a redirection.

The proper way to copy a redirecting URL is to right-click and select "copy link", or whatever equivalent function you have on your browser. I know this is basic stuff for most of you, but we have to keep everybody in mind.

Perhaps what is required is a feature where the permalink will appear in a little box that you can click on copy much like the URLs that appear in the Opening Explorer.