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| Sep-30-13 | | twinlark: Wouldn't it be a matter of professionalism?
For example, most bio writers are essentially professional in their approach to writing bios. They leave their personal politics at the door when they enter the writing room. The owners and admin of this site also leave their politics at the door when they work here. I imagine deputies could also apply some basic professionalism to the job, and leave politics at the door when they start work. Almost everyone who has ever had a job knows the importance of doing so in the work place as a matter of course. <Thanh Phan> also adds a highly salient point, namely that such access <...could be revoked any time the admins find necessary,> I've had posts deleted by admin on several occasions, almost always quite rightly I might add. However, on one occasion when I objected to one of my posts being swept away in a general cleanup involving someone we all know and revere (...), Daniel kindly reinstated one of my posts. This means posts that are removed by admins are not lost forever, not to start with anyway. So there are clearly some safety mechanisms at work, including the right of appeal, temporary storage of deleted posts and an audit trail, and admin's overriding powers to review and revoke any or all privileges it extends, and to reverse any precipitate actions taken by deputies and themselves. It's obvious that admins are over worked on occasions and can't always attend to problems and issues as expeditiously as people would like, and it says something important that they are floating this idea at this time. If admin does appoint deputies, I wouldn't necessarily want to know who they are as their job would be akin to a direct form of whistle blowing, which is anonymous. |
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| Sep-30-13 | | Abdel Irada: <If admin does appoint deputies, I wouldn't necessarily want to know who they are as their job would be akin to a direct form of whistle blowing, which is anonymous.> I would. Or rather, I'd want to know who they are not. There is at least one long-time user (whom I will not name) whose professionalism and impartiality I would *not* trust, for his judgment of other members and their kibitzes alike is predicated on ideology. It is clear that if discretionary powers of censorship were conferred upon him, he would apply them preferentially. One "side" would be punished for the least and most disputable infraction, while the other would get away with felonies. Should this user ever become a "site sheriff," <Bureaucrat> is not the only member who'd depart. ∞ |
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Sep-30-13
 | | Domdaniel: Quis custodiet ipsos custodiens?
-- Who shall guard the guards themselves?
I agree with Ohio, the Colonel, et al. Deputizing for disciplinary reasons is not the way to go. Otherwise, that was an excellent explanation from CG central. |
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| Sep-30-13 | | Abdel Irada: It's "custodes," but I commend you on an adage well chosen. ∞ |
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| Sep-30-13 | | twinlark: Q: Qui custodiet ipsos custodes?
A: admins. |
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| Sep-30-13 | | Abdel Irada: By way of compromise, perhaps trusted users *could* be trained to perform other administrative duties, freeing the admins to make final decisions about censoring posts or applying sanctions. ∞ |
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| Sep-30-13 | | Robin Gitte: <chessgames.com> Thank you for the reply about password security. I hadn't thought to delete the email but will do so as suggested. Shame on the snoopers. |
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Sep-30-13
 | | FSR: You have no picture of John L Watson. A picture of him is available in the Wikimedia Commons. https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/... |
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| Sep-30-13 | | TheFocus: In regard to deleting <JoergWalter>'s account: This is indeed a bad precedent. <JW> had some very humorous, and non-humorous, posts that I would have liked to have seen stay. The deletion of many of his posts will make exchanges between him and other posters confusing. It is like hearing only one side of a telephone conversation. We join up here knowing that our posts are supposed to be permanent (unless deleted for reason, such as rule-breaking - been there, done that, tossed away the t-shirt). Deputies? BAD idea. And on that day, I am out of here permanently with <Abdel> and <Beaurocrat>. I don't mind the Admins deleting my posts or suspending me for excessively (who, ME!) bad or objectionable posts, but I don't need other members deciding what, or who, stays or not, gets deleted or not. |
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| Sep-30-13 | | TheFocus: And once again, because of your poor actions in regard to <AJ>, a fine and respected poster, I am speaking of <Joerg>, leaves the site. Shame on you.
Already I and others have decided not to purchase gift memberships again. You know that I have purchased three besides my own. Money walking out the door is not a pleasant sound for a business. |
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| Sep-30-13 | | Shams: <Focus> Do you think you should get special treatment because you have purchased gift memberships? If not, why do you bring it up? |
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| Sep-30-13 | | TheFocus: <Shams> No, I don't think I warrant undeserved treatment. I am bringing it up to let <CG> know that some of us are disgusted with the way <AJ> is allowed to bully people on this site with no real punishment by the Admins. If they don't need the money, so be it. I can spend it elsewhere. |
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| Sep-30-13 | | TheFocus: And I am not the only one that will no longer buy gift memberships. Others have said the same. |
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| Sep-30-13 | | Shams: <Focus> <I am bringing it up to let <CG> know that some of us are disgusted.> What does your disgust have to do with buying gift memberships? Your problem is easily solved: put <AJ> on ignore. Three seconds and it's done. But like many people, you apparently would rather preserve your grievance than solve your problem. |
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| Sep-30-13 | | Robed.Bishop: <Shams> If <TheFocus'> comments annoy you to the point that you must respond, perhaps you should put him on ignore. And just to head off a natural response, I'm not annoyed by your post, I'm merely pointing out an alternative. |
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Sep-30-13
 | | jessicafischerqueen: <Colleagues>
I'm a little mystified by such a strong reaction against the idea of the admins enlisting extra help to monitor posting violations? They stated in their post it's already being done now. At present, they merely suggest the possibility of adding more help to monitor post violations, because so many of us have been complaining recently about this very problem. Since none of us even noticed that there was already extra help in monitoring violations, doesn't that mean the things you guys are worried about shouldn't be so much of a problem? It seems that Daniel has already chosen his helper(s?) wisely. Why would we assume he wouldn't choose just as wisely on a future choice for more admin help on this matter? At any rate that's just my opinion, I don't mean to criticize any of you for voicing yours. I understand where you're coming from. I wouldn't like to see <AJ> become a site admin, for example. I would also be a terrible choice as a site admin. But I'm certain Daniel would make a wiser choice than me or <AJ>. Have a "chessy day" everyone! |
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| Sep-30-13 | | Shams: <Robed.Bishop> Why not ignore everyone we take any issue with instead of responding? There are two differences; first, I think <TheFocus> is a good resource on the site and it's plain he does not feel that way about <AJ>; second, I've made probably eight or ten posts critical of him in as many years as I've been here, whereas his posts about <AJ> must number a thousand or so. One difference in kind and one difference in degree so great that it becomes a difference in kind. |
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| Sep-30-13 | | Robed.Bishop: An argument is an argument, different at times in character and severity. For the most part, however, they all start out the same. |
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Oct-01-13
 | | Tabanus: What makes you think CG is meaning monitoring the day-to-day posts? As if this is a chat. Perhaps they just mean the old posts, say older than 3 years. Not all posts have lasting value. Not even on this very page. |
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| Oct-01-13 | | Ulhumbrus: <chessgames.com> The live games page shows a game which ended yesterday. You had better take a look. |
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Oct-02-13
 | | chessgames.com: Some comments, or "meta-comments" if you will:
We will surely delete a number of posts in the past few pages, not because we are upset with them, but rather that this is not the purpose of this Chessforum. It's clear that the option of seeking volunteer help to assist in forum moderation has been met with strong feelings, mostly negative. We haven't responded to any comments on the subject because whatever questions have been posed have been largely rhetorical. We have read everything and take it seriously into consideration. |
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Oct-02-13
 | | chessgames.com: We want to make a few points clear about the "sticking our toe in the water", i.e. soliciting member-help for moderation: 1. Information normally regarded as confidential to Chessgames.com has at all times remained confidential, including email addresses, IP addresses, timestamps, etc. The only people with access to such information are paid Chessgames employees. It's always been that way, and always will. 2. Daniel has always overseen all moderation, has access to logfiles of everything deleted, and has the ability to override any decision with an undeleting utility. 3. The scope of the assistance has been *extremely* limited. We were identifying flagrant multiple-account violator(s) creating off-topic posts on the busiest pages--what some people would label "spam". None of the people who have commented in the past few days on this thread would even qualify for this kind of moderation. |
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| Oct-02-13 | | Abdel Irada: <3. The scope of the assistance has been *extremely* limited. We were identifying flagrant multiple-account violator(s) creating off-topic posts on the busiest pages--what some people would label "spam". None of the people who have commented in the past few days on this thread would even qualify for this kind of moderation.> Thank you. This is most reassuring.
My own fear is of someone with a hidden bias who brands posts on one side of an argument as violations of the posting guidelines while permitting similar posts from the other. ∞ |
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Oct-03-13
 | | Domdaniel: It *was* like a soap opera. But soaps are rarely nuked. Unfortunately. |
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Oct-03-13
 | | Domdaniel: <CG> A thought: in the header to this forum you say "Please avoid using this forum for matters that would not be of public interest" - something that most members understand. But a tiny minority, caught up in their self-centred feuds, seem to imagine that their obsessions *are* of public interest. And they keep coming back, even after deletions.
Is there some wording for the header that would hammer the point home re the true purpose of this forum? |
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ARCHIVED POSTS
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