So maybe we can move some of the specific <CG> discussion over here.

For instance, are you intending to write your own filter for finding unnormalized tournaments on <CG>?

I know you intend to search out those with multiple <Event> tags, but what about multiple <Site> tags, or <EventDate> tags?

BTW- the <Site> tags will almost certainly have to be brought back up on the Bistro. I realize biographers like to know the exact location for a given game, but that's not what the PGN standard says the <Site> location is for.

We might consider adding a new tag.

(Or do you think it's something nice to have)

Say I am looking at this page: Tan Zhongyi

And I see that she played in the 2009 Chinese Championship, I can either go to a game from that tournament, then click on the tournament link, or can the "Event" be linked directly to the tournament page?

(Provided that there is a page for that tournament, and it's not just a few entry from some local weekend Swiss or some GM Simul, that we only have one game in the database)

Can the "Year" link, such that if clicked on, will give you all the games from that year of that player? Instead of going to the home page and enter all the criteria then search?

Sure it can, and that's a really good idea. ECO codes link to their appropriate pages (pages which almost never get used), so why shouldn't the tournament link go to the tournament pages?

<Can the "Year" link, such that if clicked on, will give you all the games from that year of that player?> Thats a little stickier of an issue. People don't always search just on a player, it might be "that player wins", or "that player against the King's Indian", in which case what clicking on the year should produce is a little less clear. Besides, if you are looking at the chronological list, you can see those games from that year right in front of you.

Hmmm, it might just repeat the previous search, with the year specification added to whatever the search criteria were.

<For instance, are you intending to write your own filter for finding unnormalized tournaments on <CG>?> I already have. It doesn't change any data, it's just pointing out discrepancies.

<I know you intend to search out those with multiple <Event> tags, but what about multiple <Site> tags, or <EventDate> tags?> I wrote one to look for multiple Site tags ages ago. It helps with tournaments that have live games, where a few of the PGNs have clock-times stuffed in the site tag. That one can change data, when it sees "0:12:33-0:34:33" as a site tag, it will have the smarts to examine other games in the tournament and figure out where it was really played.

<BTW- the <Site> tags will almost certainly have to be brought back up on the Bistro. I realize biographers like to know the exact location for a given game, but that's not what the PGN standard says the <Site> location is for.>

Is it really that clear? Consider as a simple example Morelia-Linares (2008), took place in two cities thousands of miles apart. You would prefer the site tags to all read the same, something like this:

[Event "Morelia-Linares"]
[Site "Morelia/Linares MEX/ESP"]

Others would like to see the site tag reflect where the game actually was played, so while one may read

[Event "Morelia-Linares"]
[Site "Morelia MEX"]

another would read

[Event "Morelia-Linares"]
[Site "Linares ESP"]

The are pros and cons to both methods, but the 2nd method has the nice advantage of telling you where the game was actually played. It also avoids ridiculously long lists of locations for events that span many cities. (How would the combined-site method work with the Bundesliga games?)

<Gonna send you another audio/name, Tan Zhongyi, probably next week.>

Example: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lei_Ti... her page does not have the name written (in Chinese), I checked ChessBomb & Chess-DB, they all have it listed as English name.

Ding Liren 丁立人
Ding Yixin 丁亦昕
Gu Xiaobing 谷笑冰
Huang Qian 黄茜
Ju Wenjun 居文君
Li Chao 李超
Li Shilong 李師龍
Liang Chong 梁充
Liang Jinrong 梁金荣
Lu Shanglei 卢尚磊
Ni Hua 倪華
Peng Xiaomin 彭小民
Shen Yang 沈陽
Tan Zhongyi 谭中怡
Wang Rui 王锐
Wang Yue 王玥
Wang Zili 汪子力
Wen Yang 温阳
Wu Shaobin 吴少斌
Wu Wenjin 吴文瑾
Xie Jun 謝軍
Xiu Deshun 修德顺
Xu Jun 徐俊
Xu Yuhua 許昱華
Ye Jiangchuan 葉江川
Ye Rongguang 葉榮光
Yu Shaoteng 餘少騰
Yu Yangyi 余泱漪
Zhang Pengxiang 張鵬翔
Zhang Zhong 章鍾
Zhao Jun 趙駿
Zhao Xue 赵雪
Zhou Jianchao 周健超
Zhou Weiqi 周唯奇
Zhu Chen 諸宸

On the other hand, the multiple site issue, which seems up-to-bat, is another good topic for the Bistro.

But let's try to set the table here.

I'm just another guy with an opinion about what the best convention is. You introduced a couple of alternatives.

But I am the champion of renormalization here on <CG>, and all I ask is that the <Event> tag has only one value for all games in a tournament.

I realize the standard is lacking, this is the best example - but the PGN standard is the standard. Break it and there begins the road to perdition.

As for the convention to adopt for your example:

One can't really go too far astray following TWIC:

<[Site "Morelia/Linares MEX/ESP"]>

or even Wikipedia:

<Morelia/Linares (MEX/ESP)>

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linare...

My preference would be for this

<Morelia Mex / Linares ESP>

but that's just me. (I'm not shy about opinions).

As for embedding the actual site in the PGN, I'm all for it. Since there no convention that I know of, <CG> can establish one.

E.g. <[GameSite "Linares FRA"]> or

<[GameSite "Morelia MEX"]>

One could also embed the info in the Round tag, though the PGN seems to indicate only ordinals, or compound ordinals should be used.

But, because compound ordinals, hyphens or '?' is allowed by the standard, the two chess database programs I use (SCID and ChessBase Light) are very tolerant.

Of course, a comment could always be injected into the PGN.

Etc, etc, etc.

Just so long as the tournament is normalized. (Am I repeating myself?)

So, using the Site tag as one would intuitively expect seems to be the only non-option! Sad, but true.

The original standard is lacking in specifying multiple sites, but all the updated versions correspond to the advice offered here:

http://scid.sourceforge.net/scidbas... (See <Site Names>)

It's mentioned in other places as well, but I'm having trouble finding the theory.

So let's look at the pratice.

<Fritz 12>, which is really a <ChessBase> variant:

<[Site "Linaires/Morelia"]>

Brevity is the soul of wit.

<PGNMentor>

<[Site "Morelia/Linares MEX/ESP"]>

http://www.pgnmentor.com/events/Lin...

<Chess.GR>

<[Site "Morelia/Linares MEX/ESP"]>

http://chess.gr/portal/index.php?op...

OK, that's enough for now. The pattern is clear enough.

(Of course, I've neglected to show you counter-examples like this...

http://www.chess5.com/viewgame2.php...

since I haven't talked to Bob yet! (Just kidding))

On the other hand, I finally found the "official" <ChessBase>

<[Site "Morelia/Linares MEX/ESP"]>

http://en.chessbase.com/news/2008/l...

(PGN download at the bottom)

And for a different vantage point:

So, either <Bundesliga> itself, or simply <Various, GER> would do.

My opinion is to follow FIDE's convention.

The reasons:

1) It's FIDE, and it can't hurt to abide by FIDE, can it?

2) Presumably the player him/herself has indicated their preference for their name.

Some players definitely use the Western convention, others don't. So a universal rule does apply here.

(This is also true for some Spanish names, in particular, see:

Julio Argentino Kaplan Pera)

BTW- I think it's great to see a player's name given in their native script.

So, while I think ASCII is best for PGN tags still, I also believe the player's <CG> bio should strive to give the full name in the player's language as well.

UTF-8 is getting very common for browsers, and it's only a few harmless non-displaying characters for older systems.

I think it would be helpful for doing searches for biographical info if the proper spelling of the name were readily available as well. Russian Cyrillic comes to mind.

Some old discussion of this tag:

Biographer Bistro (kibitz #2066)

Would you be interested in me making a blog post showing the code I used for this?

https://zanchess.wordpress.com/2015...

Actually you probably already wrote your own, or have some ideas in mind. If so, it might be interesting to compare notes.

* * * * *

I have another idea/request for forum comments.

Lately, I find myself posting numbers for tid, gid, pid, cid, etc.

It would be nice to have a shortcut to turn them into proper hyperlinks, when desired.

Right now, doing the http prefixing is a little tedious and redundant.

So, might the following be possible?

<
@t#### -> tournament link

@c#### -> collection link

@g#### -> game link

@p#### -> player link
>

UTF-8 is getting very common for browsers, and it's only a few harmless non-displaying characters for older systems.>>

I agree. :)

Ruan Lufei 阮露斐
Liu Wenzhe 刘文哲
Guo Qi 郭琦
Ma Qun 马群
Yu Ruiyuan 余瑞源

@t#### -> tournament link

@c#### -> collection link

@g#### -> game link

@p#### -> player link