ARCHIVED POSTS
< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 992 OF 1118 ·
Later Kibitzing> |
Apr-14-17
 | | saffuna: OK, thanks for that and all the detail.
My immediate reaction is that if Wesley So writes, or has somebody write, his bio, that information absolutely must be published at the beginning or the end. It said "by Bobby Fischer" right on the cover of "My Sixty Memorable Games." We knew he wrote it, they were his opinions. The same should be true of any bio which is written by the player himself. I do agree that bios should be limited, or can be limited, to chess. For example, So would have every right to want all information about his family and personal life removed from the page. <However, that doesn't mean that a GM has the right to say "remove everything!" or replace it with a mysteriously selective account of their career. > But that is what has happened at the moment, as his whole time at Webster and with Susan Polgar eliminated. It isn't even negative information about him, as he improved greatly during that period. |
|
Apr-14-17
 | | chessgames.com: <My immediate reaction is that if Wesley So writes, or has somebody write, his bio, that information absolutely must be published at the beginning or the end.> Very few biographies are the work of a single person and with SuperGMs it is almost never the case, but we should be proud to list him as a contributor at the bottom of the page. <But that is what has happened at the moment, as his whole time at Webster and with Susan Polgar eliminated. It isn't even negative information about him, as he improved greatly during that period.> Perhaps there is a boiler-plate biography of Wesley that they pasted in place of the one we had, so things got deleted without even having been read first. I really don't know. I can talk to Wesley and say that the biographers who wrote the original material want to see some of it returned. I can ask him directly if there is something that he wants expurgated (not that his word is final, but it would be nice to know.) In the end I envision a biography better than the one that exists right now and the one that we used to have. I really don't see how this could be interpreted as a bad thing. Please don't labor under the misconception that Wesley has the final word on his page, and place trust in our backup system. |
|
Apr-14-17
 | | saffuna: <Please don't labor under the misconception that Wesley has the final word on his page, and place trust in our backup system.> OK, you've only got 13 years of trust with me to back that up! |
|
Apr-14-17
 | | MissScarlett: <In one case the biography mentioned a legal conviction for a crime that the grandmaster was ultimately acquitted. I felt it had nothing to do with chess, and besides, the courts vindicated him.> Who dat dere? |
|
| Apr-14-17 | | zanzibar: <MissS> missed one?! I wouldn't have thought it possible! |
|
| Apr-14-17 | | Tiggler: <chessgames> I don't think you need to adopt the full Wiki policy, or prevent a player from providing any input to their own bio. I do think it is unforgivable to allow a player to be editor of his own page. Let the player submit his suggestions to another editor, and complain to you if that editor does not take into account their reasonable suggestions. Given that, why is there any reason to allow Wesley to be an editor at all? Has he, or does he intend to make worthy and scholarly contributions to bios other than his own? Where is the track record as to his competence and objectivity? I hope, and assume, that all others who are appointed editors have passed this test. |
|
| Apr-14-17 | | zanzibar: <Tiggler> also makes some good points. Perhaps a compromise of some sort could be worked out - like a link on the <CG> bio to the player auto-biography. I still hope that we could reach some kind of consensus on player bios and tournaments to have a basic, stripped-down boiler-plate section. Then such a minimalist section could be supplemented as interest arises. I tried to do this with all my "First Look" entries in Z-base. It's incomplete, but I believe it's a good framework which evolved from the research work. Twinlark's work with recent tournaments also contribution to the conceptualization. An analog formula for player bios could be arrived at, I'm fairly certain. . |
|
| Apr-14-17 | | chessalem: <Do players have right of approval over the bios on their player pages? No, absolutely not. >
Well, you gave him all the powers to regulate his page...seems to me it carries with it the regulation of his biography. A biography after all is part and parcel of his page... Be careful now...you are skating on thin ice of your own making... Don't make Wesley angry..you wouldn't like him when he's angry... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VFQ... |
|
Apr-14-17
 | | saffuna: <chessalem> A question then: Why has his entire time at Webster being coached by Susan Polgar disappeared from the bio? |
|
| Apr-14-17 | | Tiggler: <Don't make Wesley angry..you wouldn't like him when he's angry...> I don't have to like him. He is a professional entertainer who can benefit from being liked, if he deserves it. |
|
| Apr-14-17 | | chessalem: <Why has his entire time at Webster being coached by Susan Polgar disappeared from the bio?> Well, obviously he was given amendatory powers by the founding father of the CG constitution... Now, that same authority is reneging on his initial stand because of peer pressure... Wesley will not have it sitting down. |
|
Apr-14-17
 | | saffuna: Read the statement by the administrator above. You are wrong <chessalem>. The bio of every player is intended to be an accurate, informative summary of the player and his career. It's not intended as a public-relations piece which publishes only what the player wants. What if Kasparov demanded the right to write his biography and wrote that Deep Blue won by cheating? |
|
| Apr-14-17 | | chessalem: <can benefit from being liked, if he deserves it.> Well, the approach CG has taken will surely be taken into consideration by Wesley...He is now seriously considering pushing that unlike button on his facebook page.. CG can now prepare a life without Wesley at this online community... Remember Wesley forsake his Susan Polgar and Webster...not to say his own family...CG would be aware of this by now...it should soften its stand before its too late...What's the big fuss getting into a quarrel with the World's best player anyway? It's clearly CG's loss...not Wesley's |
|
| Apr-14-17 | | chessalem: <...which publishes only what the player wants.> Well, that was the original intent when CG granted Wesley absolute control of his player's page. Why should his bio be any different? |
|
| Apr-14-17 | | Tiggler: <CG can now prepare a life without Wesley at this online community...> If that is his response, so be it. He needs us more than we need him. I do not expect a petulant response at all, though. He does not build a 67-game unbeaten streak without being in unusually mature control of his emotions. |
|
| Apr-14-17 | | chessalem: <He needs us more than we need him.> You're speaking in behalf of CG now? I don't remember you being elected mayor. |
|
| Apr-14-17 | | zanzibar: We're lucky to have Wesley posting here on <CG>, imo. (Though I'm a fairly neutral observer in all of this, or so I think) Hopefully this can all be worked out - though it seems to pose some rather unique considerations. |
|
| Apr-14-17 | | chessalem: <Hopefully this can all be worked out> Well, we are in the middle game and Wesley has just spotted a blunder by CG. The latter granted him administrative function over his player's page...Now, it forbids him to do so in his bio...How can the two be separate and distinct from each other such that the same policy can not be applied to both?..Wesley is slowly but surely considering his next move? Stockfish has Wesley in a winning position...
Can CG find a way out? |
|
Apr-14-17
 | | saffuna: First of all, why is this a competition with a winner and a loser? Why should a player's page be purely a shrine dedicated to worshipping the player? The page should be honest and accurate, and omitting parts of a player's career that the player doesn't like goes against being accurate. |
|
| Apr-14-17 | | Tiggler: <chessalem> I'm speaking as a member of this online community, on a kibitz page that cg provides for its users for the purpose of commenting on its content and policies, I assume. So, speaking for myself, I consider <OhioChessFan> to be a far more significant contributor to this site than <Wesley So>. So's games are another matter, but he does not control access to them, even while they are in progress, as we have found. |
|
Apr-14-17
 | | saffuna: <What's the big fuss getting into a quarrel with the World's best player anyway? > cg isn't quarreling with Carlsen. |
|
| Apr-14-17 | | chessalem: Well, CG granted Wesley logging rights to his own page...he denuded the forest of timber that obstructed his view to the palace...the lad now want's to create roads and bridges and construct a condominium complex...Wait a minute...this was never in the contract you signed...CG reminds Wesley. |
|
| Apr-14-17 | | chessalem: <Carlsen.>
He is not commenting on his page is he? |
|
Apr-14-17
 | | saffuna: You said "world's best player".... |
|
| Apr-14-17 | | chessalem: <So, speaking for myself, I consider <OhioChessFan> to be a far more significant contributor to this site than <Wesley So>. > Are you insane? or are you trolling me? |
|
 |
 |
ARCHIVED POSTS
< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 992 OF 1118 ·
Later Kibitzing> |