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Jul-13-11
 | | jessicafischerqueen: *The Squab's Breath Inn* |
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Jul-13-11
 | | Domdaniel: <Jess> Thanks. The out-of-placeness of 'cojones' was deliberate. Philosophers, in the popular imagination, don't have them - but the popular imagination never met Socrates or Bertie Russell. Funny, something reminded me of Wallace Stevens too. Heh, I just *knew* it was pastiche. It usually is. S'pose I'll have to write "The Idea of Orgy at Key West" now ... |
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Jul-13-11
 | | Domdaniel: <mworld> Yeah, some of those monk guys were pretty cool. I remember one who had complete disdain for the official history curriculum, and spent his classes playing classical music and showing us books of Renaissance art. One day, somebody scrawled a common four-letter word starting with 'f' on the blackboard. As schoolboys do. He didn't bat an eyelid. He just told us, sadly, that English - with its small and tawdry vocabulary of vulgar words - was an impoverished language for swearing in. He then gave us other examples such as Gaelic, where 'buineach ort' is a *proper* curse. Putting it delicately, it means "May you have laxity of the bowels". |
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Jul-13-11
 | | Domdaniel: <More heresy, since I'm in the mood for it...>
The Spanish. The Ruy Lopez. 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bb5 ... the single most popular chess opening over the past 400 years, and the only one to have survived unscathed throughout countless changes in style and fashion. And one that I have *never* played in a serious game, either Black or White. OK, I admit I've been taking a closer look at this opening. Playing through various games and seeing how they go. A few things struck me: (1) The typical middlegames aren't that different to, say, the King's Indian or the English Opening. Few exchanges, two slowly interlocking pawn structures, and positional jockeying for space. These are things I'm comfortable with, and are not typical of some e4 openings. (2) While some mainlines follow theory to move 25 or 30, at a lower level there are many plausible deviations for both sides. As long as White doesn't rush into playing d4, and can stop Black's ...d5, the game is likely to stay positional. (3) These deviations may lead to a slight disadvantage between GMs, but few amateur players have the skill, knowledge and experience to deal with them. I don't mean such sharp lines as 3...f5 for Black - just variations where both players make reasonable moves, while drifting away from the main theoretical battlegrounds. A lot of games between 2200s are like this. (4) If I *did* essay 1.e4 again, I'd be happy with a King's Indian Attack against the French, and maybe a Grand Prix vs the Sicilian. The problem would be 1...e5 -- I've toyed around with the Scotch and the Ponziani before, and have even played a couple of Italian Games. But all of these lead to *less* positional struggles than the Spanish. (5) I'll havta lose my virginity *sometime*, won't I? - The Spanish Virgin. |
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| Jul-13-11 | | mworld: When playing my pocket phone I always enjoy it when it lets me 'in' to the spanish. I think the computer has a hard time dealing with this opening. |
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Jul-13-11
 | | Domdaniel: <mworld> That's probably true, especially the slow positional lines. Computers sometimes try to open the game up prematurely. They maneuver very well in closed positions, but less so while the tension is maintained, as they try to calculate the consequences of each pawn exchange at every turn. That said, I haven't even played the Spanish in practice games with engines, so I'm deeply ignorant of the topic. The problem with engine practice is they rarely attempt a swindle, while humans do it all the time. |
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| Jul-13-11 | | mworld: well i make no good source for anything theory. I play chess against my phone pretty much exclusively. The few times I've played a human in this opening I was on the black side and they opted to take the knight, which really didn't sting all that much. |
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Jul-13-11
 | | Domdaniel: <mworld> But surely you must be an expert on M-theory? The one that explains matter in terms of 'branes' with I forget how many dimensions. Ten or eleven at last count, I think. It's an M-world down there. |
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Jul-13-11
 | | Annie K.: <Dom: <He just told us, sadly, that English - with its small and tawdry vocabulary of vulgar words - was an impoverished language for swearing in.>> Hear, hear! That is *so* very true.
(Incidentally, one of the reasons I've found <Crescent Moon>'s translation a bit stilted is that the translator just couldn't come up with convincing translations for all the wonderfully juicy Hungarian swearing in it...) ;s I'd say Strine is the best English dialect as juiciness goes. :D <He then gave us other examples such as Gaelic, where 'buineach ort' is a *proper* curse.Putting it delicately, it means "May you have laxity of the bowels".> That's quite Hungarian... :D |
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Jul-13-11
 | | Annie K.: <Dom: <The Spanish. The Ruy Lopez. [...] OK, I admit I've been taking a closer look at this opening.> >:) :) :)
;) |
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| Jul-13-11 | | Shams: <Dom> A softball. 1.Nf3 c5 2.c4 Nc6 3.Nc3 e5: click for larger viewNothing in the opening explorer seems all that convincing; after both 4.g3 and 4.d3 black seems to score better than 50%. What do you play here? |
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| Jul-14-11 | | Shams: Hmm, what about this 4.g3 g6 5.Bg2 Bg7 6.0-0 Nge7 7.a3
 click for larger view |
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| Jul-14-11 | | Shams: Yes, I read on a chesspub forum that Kramnik's play here is the way to go-- and it suits my style. Kramnik vs E Alekseev, 2008 |
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Jul-14-11
 | | Domdaniel: <Shams> I've been caught out by that move order a few times. I was also surprised, once, by the sequence 1.Nf3 c5 2.g3 Nc6 3.Bg2 e5 4.d3 d5, which is a relatively cramped version of the King's Indian Attack. Playable, but White's extra tempo compared to the KID doesn't seem to matter much. Back to your line, 1.Nf3 c5 2.c4 Nc6 3.Nc3 e5 ... I remember posting a game here which I won quickly, by playing g3/Bg2/Rb1/a3/b4, while Black over-extended with ...f5, ...d6, ...Be6. By move 12 or so White's pressure on c6/b7, from the Rb1 and Bg2, was lethal. Sometimes Black will play ...c5, ...e5, and ...a5, accepting multiple holes in order to discourage pawn breaks. Though even here White can usually build up to b4. The main alternative, I suppose, is 1.Nf3 c5 2.c4 Nc6 3.d4, preventing ...e5 for the time being. Black gets good play in this line, though. I was surprised to see Richard Palliser write, in 'Dangerous Weapons: Flank Openings', that "An early d4 causes problems for a number of Symmetrical English players [as Black]. Club players rarely face it, unlike those lines with an early g3 which can be met with a Botvinnik set-up (3.g3 e5 4.Nc3 g6 5.Bg2 Bg7)." A surprise, because 3.d4 was my main line for years, and I never realized it was unusual. But Palliser goes on to suggest a sharp line for Black -- 1.c4 c5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.d4 cxd4 4.Nxd4 e5!? 5.Nb5 a6!? which may not be to everyone's taste. After 6.Nd6+ Bxd6 7.Qxd6 Qf6, it's similar to a Lowenthal Sicilian:
 click for larger view Unlike the quieter fianchetto lines, you have to know what you're doing in a variation like this. One amusing line given by Palliser is 8.Qc7 Nge7 9.Nc3 Nd4?? 10.Ne4 Qe6 11.Nd6+ Kf8 12.Qd8#. One other option is to play d4 at once, even on move 2: 1.Nf3 c5 2.d4 ... or prepare it with 2.c3 if you don't want a piece recapturing on d4. But this approach tends to lead to something like a Reversed Slav or Reversed Grunfeld. It can also suddenly become a Sicilian if White lobs in e4. 2.b3 is actually quite good against 1...c5, I think. If Black plays 2...d5, then 3.e3 is the classic Nimzo-Larsen Attack formation, with Bb2 and Bb5 planned, plus control of e5. A reversed Nimzo/Queen's Indian with an extra tempo. I play this sometimes. On balance, your own answer is the one I like best. |
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Jul-14-11
 | | Domdaniel: <Annie> Don't get carried away, now. "Taking a closer look" is a very non-committal act in my universe. As are most things, rilly. But it's a start. I may even persuade myself that a Spanish (3.Bb5) is merely a strange inverted kind of Winawer (3...Bb4). |
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Jul-14-11
 | | OhioChessFan: <The typical middlegames aren't that different to, say, the King's Indian or the English Opening. Few exchanges, two slowly interlocking pawn structures, and positional jockeying for space. These are things I'm comfortable with, and are not typical of some e4 openings.> It is simply wrong to begin with a theme, symbol or other abstract unifying agent, and then try to force characters and events to conform to it. |
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Jul-14-11
 | | Domdaniel: <Ohio> You're my literary advisor now? Good advice too, if I was aiming to produce a saleable novel. But I persist in my addiction to abstract themes and hidden patterns that almost nobody sees a point to. (OK, to which almost nobody sees a point ...)
It may be wrong, but not *simply* wrong. It's complicatedly wrong, baroquely, byzantinely wrong. |
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Jul-14-11
 | | SwitchingQuylthulg: <Domdaniel: I may even persuade myself that a Spanish (3.Bb5) is merely a strange inverted kind of Winawer (3...Bb4).> It might be - if you played 1.e3. Which is a more sensible opening move anyway, you know. |
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| Jul-14-11 | | mworld: unified wave theory, m theory, string theory, the list goes on. No expert, but i did enjoy them all when I was younger. you get a first in all these years to even get a good go at 'm' =] in the meantime, i was really surprised the other day when my phone played white and opened with the bird. |
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| Jul-14-11 | | mworld: <Annie> i just received my copy from amazon the other day. it also came with Quicksilver. Its going to be a hard choice which to go with after I finish the one i'm on. |
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Jul-14-11
 | | Domdaniel: <Switch> Irish championships, 1977. My rating - must've been something like 1899 or 1999, depending on the rules that year - placed me right on the cusp between the championships proper and the supporting tournament. I elected to move down and be top seed in the lower one - plenty of time for real championships in future, I thought. Time to win some money instead. I opened my first game with 1.e3 and won in 12 moves. This went to my head, and I proceeded to lose 3 out of 7. To compound matters, they then changed the rating minimum for the championship to 2200 plus qualifiers, and I didn't actually get to play in one until 2008. But I haven't used 1.e3 much since. My final opponent in '77, the tournament winner and a future FM, grinned when he saw my 1.e3, said "I thought you might do that", and whipped out his preparation -- 1...g6. It rules out Nimzo-Larsen stuff with b3 - the main plan after 1.e3 - and turns into a King's Indian or Leningrad Dutch with the dubious move e3 played. I prefer 1. (or 2.) a3!, actually.
I have still played 1.e3 *many* times more often than 1.e4. I used to enjoy confidently pushing the e-pawn forward ... and stopping short of the expected square. But people were easier to surprise in those pre-database days. |
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Jul-14-11
 | | Domdaniel: <mworld> I saw three tournament games open 1.f4 last week, and all continued 1...e5 2.fxe5 d6 3.exd6 Bxd6. It seems the From Gambit has become the main line of the Bird - so much so that White players who want to play the Danielsen-style Polar Bear attack (with g3, Bg2, d3, c3) are opening 1.g3 instead, and playing 1.g3 d5 2.f4. I spent a while looking at this recently - the Bird is on my list of 'occasional' openings, but I don't have a good record with it. Then again, it's hard to think of a White opening that I do have a good record with. The Flohr-Mikenas (1.c4 Nf6 2.Nc3 e6 3.e4), perhaps. |
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Jul-14-11
 | | SwitchingQuylthulg: Yes, that's why it's better to play 1.b3 first and only then 2.e3 or 3.e3 :) |
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| Jul-14-11 | | mworld: So I lost to the little metal monster going for the From's. It was odd to me though since I normally am white when playing the bird, so trying it from the other side of the board against a player that doesn't really make tactical blunders was not so much fun! Thats a good tip about g3! I love opening with g3, but i've never really thought about it in a transposed bird type of way...maybe i have been subconciously doing it. When i first started playing chess i found i liked f4, before I knew what an opening was - that and the kg were my natural tendencies. Once i realized the depth of the game I read a chess book or two and found that i was 'supposedly' using inferior openings and have been experimenting ever since - i get bored too easy if i feel like i am playing the same game. |
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| Jul-14-11 | | Shams: <OCF><It is simply wrong to begin with a theme, symbol or other abstract unifying agent, and then try to force characters and events to conform to it.> If that isn't a quote from the foreword to Pynchon's "Slow Learner" it's awfully close. <Dom> Thanks, that was supererogatory. You're a prince. |
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