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| Nov-14-08 | | malthrope: Hehehe... Niels! This is exactly what Bill (IM William G. Addison) would do to me! ~lol~ I learned my Chess lessons the hard way! If you don't see the correct line (the <elegance> we are seeking) - keep trying until you do! <grin> :^) - Mal |
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Nov-14-08
 | | jessicafischerqueen: Hi <Niels>--
Actually, our moves are totally transposable--
IE--
<1.Qg6+ Kh8
2.Rg3+ fxg3
3.hxg3 Qh4
4.gxh4>
Is EXACTLY THE SAME as
<2.Rg3+ fxg3
Qg6+ Kh8
hxg3 Qh4
gxh4.>
OK I don't see a better win than this--
I do NOT AGREE that "Qh4" is a "resource"--
It merely postpones Black's inevitable loss .
I'm sorry but after <gxh4> (what else?), it's a WON GAME for White and I say I could beat a GM from that position. However--
If there's a more <elegant> and quicker win- a forced mate or something- It has to be some move before the Qh4 "resource" can be played. BTW I consider a move like Qh4 from our line to be <SUICIDE CHESS> and I would feel <TOTALLY INSULTED> if my opponent played on after I took his queen on the next move. However---
If there's a more elegant win- we should find it...
And it has to come earlier than in our lines, <Niels> |
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Nov-14-08
 | | jessicafischerqueen: Er.. <Eyal> I don't know if you've noticed this but <Mal> is claiming that there is a more elegant line than the one me and <Niels> came up with. |
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| Nov-14-08 | | achieve: 1. Qg6 works too, but is less elegant as a first move, though not exactly bombastic either. Beautiful motif, and the trick is to train the brain to spot such opportunities, when not knowing there is a forced win... Black's naked King + awkward development BEG for some kind of Piece sacrifice, and Rg3 is a gem in that respect. |
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Nov-14-08
 | | jessicafischerqueen: Ok <Mal> the ball's in your court. Let's see you post the line that is better than the one me and <Niels> found, and better than the one the GMs actually found in the game!! It's <YOUR MOVE> now, my dear <Mal>... heh-
You've got some "proving" to do here... |
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| Nov-14-08 | | malthrope: <Eyal> - isn't the main line 1. Rg3+ fxg3 2. Qg6+ Kh8 and now 3. Ng5! with double threats 4. hxg3+ and Qh7#... ;) |
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Nov-14-08
 | | jessicafischerqueen: <Niels>
Both of our lines work in exactly the same way-- they are transposable. However, note that <Mal> is maintaining there exists a different more elegant line-- He is right about <Qh4> as a method to force White to test technique, although as I said I'm totally sure I could mop any GM from the position after I whip off his queen there... This is a mystery--
<Mal>-- we need to see your secret line here.... A line that AVOIDS the <suicide chess "resource"> of Qh4... |
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| Nov-14-08 | | achieve: <Mal> heh triple jinx! I think Qh4 and pawn takes queen is unavoidable, so I do not see an improvement, as <Jess> pointed out precisely. White wins totally - and the move order is of little influence, cept for the elegancy/forcefulness. |
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| Nov-14-08 | | Eyal: 3...Qh4 does prevent an immediate mate, but after gxh4 it's a very easy win for White just by "brute force" (as you can see in the link to the game) - it's not really part of the puzzle anymore. |
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| Nov-14-08 | | malthrope: Jess - <You've got some "proving" to do here...>
I did this solving from the diagram only. The line I just gave is what I saw and that looks 'elegant' of which I saw so *no* refutation... ;) |
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| Nov-14-08 | | Eyal: <malthrope: <Eyal> - isn't the main line 1. Rg3+ fxg3 2. Qg6+ Kh8 and now 3. Ng5! with double threats 4. hxg3+ and Qh7#... ;)> But then Black has 3...Qxg5+(!) 4.Qxg5 gxf2, and White probably has to settle for a draw by perpetual. |
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| Nov-14-08 | | achieve: <malthrope: <Eyal> - isn't the main line 1. Rg3+ fxg3 2. Qg6+ Kh8 and now 3. Ng5! with double threats 4. hxg3+ and Qh7#... ;)> 3 Ng5 Qxg5! - and white runs out of ammo... Back in to check...
<Jess> You (we) nailed it, methinks...l |
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| Nov-14-08 | | achieve: <Mal> heh -- Ng5-elegance refuted by brute force! Good Show though! |
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Nov-14-08
 | | jessicafischerqueen: Hi <Mal>! We're all working just from the diagram here. Which helps explain why I needed <three> tries to get the correct solution-- heh... I don't even use my board to help with these puzzles because I'm trying to improve my "chess visualization" skills for OTB and Internet play... |
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| Nov-14-08 | | malthrope: <achieve: <malthrope: <Eyal> - isn't the main line 1. Rg3+ fxg3 2. Qg6+ Kh8 and now 3. Ng5! with double threats 4. hxg3+ and Qh7#... ;)> 3 Ng5 Qxg5! - and white runs out of ammo...> Now after 3... Qxg5 4. hxg3+ your move... :)) |
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| Nov-14-08 | | Eyal: <mal> Qxg5 delivers a check... |
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Nov-14-08
 | | jessicafischerqueen: <Mal> is sticking to his guns!! OK you have to prove him wrong boys--
4.hxg3...
YOUR MOVE EYAL AND NIELS!! |
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| Nov-14-08 | | achieve: <Mal & Jess> Well done from the diagram - impressive -- I set it up on the wooden board, also just because I love using it! heh |
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Nov-14-08
 | | jessicafischerqueen: Hang on Qg5 is check <Mal> so you are forced to take his queen- |
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Nov-14-08
 | | jessicafischerqueen: QUADRUPLE JINX@!!!!!
heh
What a great workout gentlemen...
Some furious chess brainery here. |
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| Nov-14-08 | | achieve: Yep - it's the bloody check that refutes Mal's "elegancy"... |
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Nov-14-08
 | | jessicafischerqueen: Actually you know I think all three of us went "too fast" in this puzzle-- I know i did for sure because my first two tries were incorrect-- What is the lesson here?
<Chess takes time>.
That's why I don't play Blitz.
Let's leave that up to <Hideous Nagasaki> . |
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| Nov-14-08 | | malthrope: <Eyal: <mal> Qxg5 delivers a check...> Ah, I overlooked that! :( Darn that's why I thought it was <elegant>... Next time I'll get a board! Yes, not elegant it's just brutal! ~lol~ |
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| Nov-14-08 | | achieve: <Some furious chess brainery here.> Well said <Mrs. Alekhine> -- you still "got it" -- |
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Nov-14-08
 | | jessicafischerqueen: We've <all> been hung by a <BLINDING UNFORSEEN TEMPO GAINING MOVE THAT HANGS US> after we've calculated the most beautiful line in the world... And we will <all> be hung again... Such is the beauty, mystery, tragedy and glory of this great art we call chess.... |
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