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| Dec-21-08 | | Woody Wood Pusher: <He hated him with great passion. He also Respected him-- had great respect for him even-- but this respect did not diminish his animal hatred for the man one iota.> Yea, they were two <old-school> champs going at it. It was Botvinnik that really trained them to do this though, all the psychological aspects of the fight...right up to glaring and snarling over the board! And it did work, to an extent. Korchnoi was so disturbed by Karpov staring at him he had to wear glasses. And Anand was reportedly really shaken up by the simmering violence Kasparov displayed in their games. Chess like this is just like boxing or MMA in my opinion. During the match you have to <hate> your opponent in order to do the most damage you can, never holding back. But I also think that a respectful attitude after the match is just as important and is what prevents this attitude from having any negative effects on the game as a whole. Karpov and Kasparov would always appear together in the closing ceremony and shake hands and show a great respect for each other. Compare that to the way Topalov behaved with Kramnik and the importance the difference makes is all too clear I think. Karpov and Kasparov were obviously playing for high personal stakes, but the best reason for not tolerating disrespectful behaviour nowadays is the Fischer-Spassky match IMO. The pressure on them was probably the highest ever, and is unlikely ever to be matched, and despite everything that went on, at then end of the day they were very respectful of one another and raised chess to a new level. It says a lot about their great characters to be able to go through that match and retain their dignity and respect. Topalov started his dirty under-handed little tricks and his disrespectful remarks over a unified title match, there was no way he would have been able to cope with the pressure Fischer or Spassky did. Yea, I'm all for the violent aggressive side of chess, as long as there is also a respectful and dignified side away from the board. |
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Dec-21-08
 | | jessicafischerqueen: Yes, there's no excuse for <Tops> accusing <Drawnik>.... And you can't blame that on <Northern Dancer Ilov> either, because <Topy> signed off on the behavior. The hatred of the opponent must lie only OTB-
Not only did <K and K> always shake hands before and after every single game-- sometimes they would spend time together right on the stage analyzing after a particularly interesting game, ignoring the rest of the room and gallery. You see- only they knew what they were talking about. No one else on earth was qualified to join in that particular discussion. They were tied to each other by fate--
And we, the chess fans, and the game itself were the real winners of that fierce tie between them. |
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| Dec-21-08 | | Woody Wood Pusher: <You see- only they knew what they were talking about. No one else on earth was qualified to join in that particular discussion.> That's a good point <JFQ>, and it is also quite nostalgic as well. Nowadays everyone is a 2800 Elo player with an engine by their side, but back then the game was still full of mystery to the casual observer and even most of the other GM's had difficulty following a game of that level until after some serious analysis. |
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| Dec-21-08 | | Woody Wood Pusher: And the ultimate in nostalgia has to be <The Adjourned Game> haha
Now that really is unthinkable with these pesky machines around... Would you trade all of their chess insights to have the old romantic game back as it was though? On the whole I wouldn't, but there are occasions when I would indeed activate an EMP blast if given the chance. hehe |
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| Dec-21-08 | | Open Defence: <Nowadays everyone is a 2800 Elo player with an engine by their side, but back then the game was still full of mystery to the casual observer and even most of the other GM's had difficulty following a game of that level until after some serious analysis.
> except in Frogspawn, I also posted a Bird's Opening Game of mine that Rybka had no clue about ... it was for the birds though |
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Dec-21-08
| | jessicafischerqueen: I think they should put a giant plastic bag over every chess computer and let them compost. |
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| Dec-21-08 | | Woody Wood Pusher: Yea I should have mentioned you as the exception <OD>! I think there are WCC games more clear to the computer than your games! Maybe your style is the future!
You could be the John Conner of the chess world and show us humans how to fight the machines. But then Sky Net will be sending <Fritz 250> from the future with a mission to checkmate you while you are unaware of your destiny. |
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Dec-21-08
| | jessicafischerqueen: <Deffi> can beat them all cuz she was on the <Viva Zapata> consultation team and she was one of the important <Hirac> engineers too. Also, she beat a <cyborg> in a correspondence too. I looked but I cant remember the name...
Excelsior? no..
Exxon....
dang it
Zeke?
Zappa....
Excedrin
I CAN'T REMEMBER
she beat it though. |
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| Dec-21-08 | | Open Defence: hence my forum name
<RAGE AGAINST THE MACHINE> !!! <Sarah Connor> of the Chess World Regards,
I'll be Black! |
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| Dec-21-08 | | Woody Wood Pusher: <Sarah Connor> of the Chess World> oops my mistake!
I forgot about her, been a while since I saw the films. One small request though, can you save the chess world in a less <butch-lesbian> type way than she did? I don't know why they made that character, there was plenty of male testosterone on the screen without her anyway. <I'll be black>
hahahaha
that's great!
hehe |
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| Dec-21-08 | | Woody Wood Pusher: I can't find the game you posted <OD>.. Is it as <Dom>'s place? Or have I just gone mad? |
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| Dec-21-08 | | Open Defence: this is the Birdie
Event "Chessgames.com 2008 Summer Invitational"]
[Site "http://gameknot.com/"]
[Date "2008.11.18"]
[Round "-"]
[White "nakosonorense"]
[Black "weaponofchoice"]
[Result "0-1"]
[WhiteElo "1833"]
[BlackElo "2083"]
1. f4 b6 2. e3 Bb7 3. Nf3 e6 4. b3 f5 5. Bb2 Nf6 6. Be2 Nc6 7. O-O Be7 8. d4 O-O 9. c4 a5 10. Nc3 Qe8 11. h3 Rc8 12. Qd2 Kh8 13. Rad1 Nd8 14. Ne5 d6 15. Nf3 Qg6 16. Nh4 Qh6 17. Nf3 Ne4 18. Nxe4 Bxe4 19. Bd3 Qg6 20. Qe2 Nf7 21. Nd2 d5 22. Rc1 c6 23. a3 Bxd3 24. Qxd3 Qg3 25. Nf3 g5 26. fxg5 Nxg5 27. Nxg5 Qxg5 28. Rf2 Bd6 29. c5 Bg3 30. Rf3 b5 31. a4 Rg8 32. Kh1 b4 33. Rc2 Bb8 34. Qa6 Qd8 35. Qf1 Rg6 36. Rcf2 Qh4 37. Qd3 Rcg8 38. Qf1 Qe4 39. Qd1 Kg7 40. Qd2 Kf7 41. Qd1 h5 42. Qf1 Rg3 43. Qd1 Rxf3 44. Qxf3 Qb1+ 45. Bc1 Qxc1+ 46. Rf1 Qb2 47. Qxh5+ Rg6 48. Qh7+ Rg7 49. Qh5+ Ke7 50. Qh4+ Kd7 0-1 |
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| Dec-21-08 | | Woody Wood Pusher: <OD> That is a great game! One of the best examples of good bishop-bad bishop I have seen in a while. 25...g5! and 25...Bg3!
My favourite moves of the game.
What was the time control for this BTW?
Also, what were you planning after <44.Rxf3>
from white?
I don't see an immediate reason for his 44.Qxf3? move but maybe I am missing something. 44.Rxf3,Qh4 and 45...Rg3 perhaps?
and try and invade with your king?
Great positional game though!
Cheers. |
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| Dec-21-08 | | Open Defence: <WWP> thanks! it was 7 days per move, + 3 days increment, max 10 days 44.Qxf3 was a blunder by White but needed accurate defence to retain the winning advantage by Black on 44.Rxf3 Black can choose between
44....h4 (thematic) when 45.Bc1 Rg3 46.Kg1 Ke7 leads to a position where Black should be able to break through at some point or 44...Ke7 which should lead to simmilar play, since the position is so closed, Black can and probably should squeeze White one ply at a time (my favourite kind of play) |
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| Dec-21-08 | | Woody Wood Pusher: <OD> Well if this guy is making blunders with 7 days per move, he must be a real monster at blitz! hehe
<44....h4 (thematic) when 45.Bc1 Rg3 46.Kg1 Ke7 leads to a position where Black should be able to break through at some point> What happens if 46.Rxg3?
46.Rxg3,hxg3 47.Kg1
The position is so blocked up it seems holdable for White IMO or if 46.Rxg3,Bxg3 47.Kg1
and I can't see how to make progress because the White Queen on d1 is just about holding everything together and there is no way in for the black King. I can't see a way to make the f5-f4 break work either. |
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| Dec-21-08 | | Open Defence: <WWP> White was our very own <Nako> who played a very good game until the unfortunate blunder on move 44 <46.Rxg3,hxg3 47.Kg1
The position is so blocked up it seems holdable for White IMO > hmmm 46...Bxg3 without a doubt and then White should be in a lot of trouble e.g.
47.Bd2? Qd3! 
47.Kg1 Ke7 48.Kf1 Kd7 49.Kg1 Qb1!
once the Black King is shielded, White can't repel boarders it seems |
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| Dec-21-08 | | Open Defence: for me 9...a5 and 10...Qe8 were my favourite moves, I had grandoise visions of Botvinnik when I made those moves |
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| Dec-21-08 | | Woody Wood Pusher: <for me 9...a5 and 10...Qe8 were my favourite moves,> Yea, I don't know anything about this line so I wasn't sure how much was theory. Your Queen placement left me jealous the whole game though! hehe |
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| Dec-21-08 | | Open Defence: another aspect of this game is the latent power of Bishops even in closed positions, the Black DSB is a monster!!! |
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| Dec-21-08 | | Woody Wood Pusher: <47.Kg1 Ke7 48.Kf1 Kd7 49.Kg1 Qb1!> <Qb1!>
Yes you are right as always, I had missed that. really throws a spanner in the works! hehe
Great move. |
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| Dec-21-08 | | Open Defence: well previously something like this was played
Opening Explorer 1. b3 b6 2. Bb2 Bb7 3. f4 f5 4. e3 e6 5. Nf3 Nf6 6. Be2 Be7 7. O-O O-O 8. c4 but no high level games so I think we made the theory in this game, I sort of played it like a Classical Dutch with a5 and Qe8 where White was neither attacking on the Q side nor on the K side due to the nature of his set up |
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| Dec-21-08 | | Open Defence: the thing is Rybka does not catch 43...Rxf3 (unless maybe RV runs it on his mainframe!) but when force fed it goes bersek finding great lines for Black so again, if the players involved are keen on playing interesting chess, the chess engines cannot kill it! its all upto the players, it always has been, just like Opening, Middle Game and End Game books dont make one play a perfect game of Corresspondence Chess, neither do the engines |
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| Dec-21-08 | | Woody Wood Pusher: Taking the Rook was a real bad idea of mine, as you just demonstrated...but I'm going to look what other options white has now and see if I can make up for my dreadful board vision somehow! hehe |
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| Dec-21-08 | | Woody Wood Pusher: <the thing is Rybka does not catch 43...Rxf3 > haha
The more I hang out with you, the less I miss having access to a stupid engine anyway! How do you actually play these games BTW, do you allow yourself to take notes and move pieces or do you just keep it as close to OTB as possible? I can only just scratch the surface of such a long game, but it's clear your plans are extremely deep and well thought out! I would certainly not fancy my chances against you, that's for sure. |
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| Dec-21-08 | | Woody Wood Pusher: 44.Rxf3,h4 45.Kg1,Rg3 46.Rxg3,Bxg3 47.Qh5+,Kg7 48.Qg5+,Kf7 etc is a draw So black does have to take care of his king first like you said. but there doesn't seem to be anything useful for White to do with this time... Well <OD> I definitely take my hat off to your <43..Rxf3!!> That is one <deep move> I would really be impressed if an engine would see that move. Maybe <hms> will run Fritz on it and see. |
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