On Yahoo almost everyone plays <4...Bc5> which is the Potter variation so that's the one I'm most used to playing.

<4...Qh4> Steinitz variation- love to see that since it's totally busted. Black wins a pawn by force but then must accept a totally losing position after White simply keeps developing. I learned how to beat it because first time I saw it was against <shropshire> in Correspondence and he shredded me.

<4...Nf6> makes for a very fine game IMO with plenty of manoevering and build up OR sudden sharp tactics-- IMO this is the most "natural" 4th move for Black in terms of basic chess principles. I'm particularly fond of this one to play, since it was in this variation that I got my first ever win against someone over 1500. That was just before I joined this website.

Howver I'm not sure if you know this but when <Kasparov> and then <Grishuck> revived the <Scotch> for GM play, this is actually the main line:

1. e4 e5
2. Nf3 Nc6
3. d4 exd4
4. Nxd4 <Qf6>!!!????!!@@#@#@#@#

5. Nxc6 Bc5
6. Qd2

Producing this:

click for larger view

Here's a testament to your <Yahoo man in the street> profile--

NOT ONCE have I ever seen this mainline GM variation.

On Yahoo, players in the 1400-1900 range are very much not up on opening theory.

And when they are, they are only up on their own pet repetoires, none of which include the Scotch, of course. Not the current GM level variation anyway. Of course, I don't know it from experience either cuz I never had to play it yet. I only know it from replaying GM games here.

Most stronger <Yahooers> play the Potter and they know it well enough to make an equal game in my experience.

These <yahooers>. are, however, very tough tacticians and scrappy resourceful players. Most of them never study or read chess or belong to a chess community or even to a chess club-- In fact, the majority of opponents I"ve actualy chatted to during games are actually unaware of who the current World Champion is.

I'm talking about the "non-blitz" crowd here.

Instead-- and you can find this out by clicking on the player profile, as I always do at the start--

They play- day in, day out. Play play play chess. These guys are not "chess fans" or "analysts"- they are PLAYERS and I have learned- through bitter experience and struggle- to regard them with great respect.

In fact, I have strong evidence that the <Yahoo> ratings of the majority of these "footsoldiers" are DEFLATED--

That is, comparing the rating- playing strength of <Yahooers> to the USCF rating-playing strength of my friends at my old OTB chess club, I'd say the <Yahoo> ratings are at least <100> points deflated in relation to USCF ratings. I'd say more than that even.

I think that's why they are so tough-- In many, many, many instances I'm only able to beat many of these people because I know a bit more about opening theory and if they make a weak move in the opening I usually know what to do--

But that's no guarantee of anything- You still have to play hard and long like these guys do. Some of them have thousands of games played in their profiles.

Ok Game Day report:

Two games two wins-- with the "training ID" still. Actually A guy called <Wood Pusher23> sat at my table and I asked if it was you, but it wasnt'.

Anyhoo I'm still rusty-- the first game the guy hung his queen and in the second the guy mounted a very strong kingside attack against my English but I managed to hold and beat him.

However, I was forced to find several "only moves" to defend- very hairy.

Good practice for me having to defend like that.

"The Big Leagues": <4...Qf6>

(As I said, I have never faced <4...Qf6> in my "career"- which is of course in the "Green Grass League.")

Ok first thing to note is that the <GM Scotch Revival Line> popularized by <Kasparov>-- the line I showed you in my last post there--- became somewhat trendy at GM level because <Kasparov> started playing it around the time he beat <Short> in their title match. It's also not really a "revival line" in that it's really quite new in chess history. Very modern. Hip, even.

1. e4 e5
2. Nf3 Nc6
3. d4 exd4
4. Nxd4 <Qf6>
5. Nxc6 Bc5
6. Qd2

click for larger view

<Short>, however, was not fooled-

Kasparov vs Short, 1993

But here is <Kasparov> WHOOPING on <Yusopov> in the same line:

Kasparov vs Yusupov, 1994

###########################

Recently at top levels, there is also another, somewhat popular and similar line-- featuring <4...Qf6>.. who's biggest name recent practitioner is <Morozevich>, though I don't know why <Moro> insists on it as he keeps getting pounded when he plays it. And he plays it often.

This line is in fact a "true revival" in that it was played frequently in the Jurassic Period.

<Steinitz> used to play it, for example -- But today, <Moro> and some other Master Class players have revived this actually very old line:

1. e4 e5
2. Nf3 Nc6
3. d4 exd4
4. Nxd4 <Qf6>
5. Be3 Bc5

click for larger view

That said, however, here is <Moro> POUNDING <Sviddy> in this variation-

Morozevich vs Svidler, 2007

<Sviddy's> no pushover- I imagine <Moro> likes the wild action in this "new old" variation which is why he plays it.

<Moro's> a great player-- World Number Five, for cripe sake--, but he's certainly not afraid to get pounded. Though it's false to say he can't beat "the big boys" in the 2700 club-- that's just nonsense IMO.

On the other hand, here is a very entertaining Blitz Game in which <Moro> gets POUNDED by <Chucky> in this line:

Morozevich vs Ivanchuk, 2008

#################

Finally, I think that <4...Qf6> is non-existent on <Yahoo> because there's something counter-intuitive about whipping your Queen out so early.

There <are> lines where it's fine though. These are two of them, apparently.

Remember, the <Scotch Opening>, like the <Scotch People>, is a little eccentric, to say the least.

For example, here are two <Scottish GMs> locked in mortal combat in the fabled <Scotch Opening>:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/karroc...

NOBODY EXPECTS THE SCOTCH OPENING!!

(although it rarely frightens anybody)

http://www.chessgames.com/perl/ches...

<Radjabov> is the <Anti-Kramnik>!!!

hahaHAHAHAHA

Visually, what a great link you posted there.

HAHAHAHA look- this game from your list-

<Radjabov> ACCIDENTALLY won in this <Scotch>!!!

Radjabov vs Karjakin, 2005

<Woody>-- this <Radish Scotch> here is an exceedingly sharp advance version of the <4...Nf6> Scotch and I have in fact played this a few times.

It's called the <Measles Variation> for some reason: have a look-

1. e4 e5
2. Nf3 Nc6
3. d4 exd4
4. Nxd4 <Nf6>
5. Nxc6 bxc6
6. e5

click for larger view

- Yeah. Like Bizarro Kramnik, who lives in the backwards bizarro world. Up is down, down is up. Short draws with White, playing for a win with Black. He says "Hello" when he leaves, "Good bye" when he arrives.

- Shouldn't he say "bad bye"?

- No, it's still goodbye.

- Does he live underwater?

- No.

- Is he black?

- Look, just forget the whole thing, all right?

I have played a few games with 4...Bc5 but I never liked the 5.Nf5,d5 continuation very much so basically stuck with 4...Nf6.

<<4...Qh4> Steinitz variation- love to see that since it's totally busted.>

haha

Yes that play is too risky for Black IMO as well.

<Howver I'm not sure if you know this but when <Kasparov> and then <Grishuck> revived the <Scotch> for GM play, this is actually the main line: 4...Qf6>

I was kind of aware of this in a vague way but my memory failed me when I composed my post to you and I forgot to mention it.

I know the position after <4...Qf6 5. Nxc6 Bc5 6. Qd2 > but from a slightly different move order 4...Bc5, 5.Nxc6,Qf6 6.Qd2,dxc6

I wasn't aware that <4...Qf6> was the new main line, but even more surprising to me was this

<But today, <Moro> and some other Master Class players have revived this actually very old line:>

<1. e4 e5
2. Nf3 Nc6
3. d4 exd4
4. Nxd4 <Qf6>
5. Be3 Bc5 >

I am very grateful to you for pointing this out to me <JFQ>. I haven't kept up to date with opening theory for a long time and I am pretty much stuck in my ways, so it is a real thrill when active players like yourself and <OD> point out these gems that I am completely unaware of.

I have been having a lot of fun with the OE today going through this line, it seems the Scotch is very much alive and kicking!

<These <yahooers>. are, however, very tough tacticians and scrappy resourceful players.>

I agree, there are some really tough opponents on there and it isn't easy taking them down at all. I was playing on FICS a couple of months ago and they are tough on there as well, so tough I haven't actually been back...Maybe when I am back in shape I will go for a rematch.

<NOT ONCE have I ever seen this mainline GM variation.>

Yea I know what you mean, that is the same for so many lines. Like the 4..Bc5 line of the Scotch that I gave up because of 5.Nf5, in theory it doesn't really present much of a problem for Black but I had problems with it and it turned up a few too many times in my games so I had to just avoid it. Club level chess and GM chess just obey different rules, I'm not sure if that is a good or bad thing though...

<Two games two wins-- with the "training ID" still. Actually A guy called <Wood Pusher23> sat at my table and I asked if it was you, but it wasnt'.>

haha

Luckily it wasn't me and my scalp is still safe...for now!

Thank you again for your informative and entertaining posts <JFQ>, and sorry about my archaic opening knowledge.

Cheers!

I keep returning to the thought of you playing the Scotch as one of your main openings, and you know I don't think I have ever met anybody else who did that.>

I drink a lot of Scotch as part of my main openings. Does that count?

Yahoo game day report:

%#&&##$

Rusty Straub reporting...

For cripe sake so I come out with my <English tournament ID> and I get a game with a really nasty guy a hundred points higher than me (my favorite situation-) and at the last second I open <1.e4> and he goes Scandinavian and i know I came out of the opening better and I HUNG MY D PAWN and then got really really mad and hunkered down and got some queenside counterplay and became so absorbed in the position THAT I WON BACK MY PAWN WITHOUT EVEN REALIZING IT FOR AT LEAST 15 MOVES

Criminy I guess I should "stop and count the pieces" at various key points during the game.

So I trade down into a drawn endgame and make possibly the only move that loses and he had zugzwang on me after that and an easy win but MY CONNECTION CRASHED and that hasn't happened for ages but I wasn't too upset about that because my position was lost anyways however I got to worrying about exposing my HIGH RATINGS IDs to long games like this one over three hours that might crash etc. so I actually filed a <bug report> to JAVA and then I updated my IE browser and then I tested my <Gorilla Firefox> browser for <Yahoo Chess> and it worked just fine and while testing it I accidentally started a game with Black and I managed to win in a <delayed open Sicilian> and I BLITZED ALL MY MOVES AND HARDLY THOUGHT AT ALL AND I WON AND IN THE FIRST GAME I THOUGHT HARD FOR HOURS AND HOURS AND THAT %$%$#@#$ BEAT ME LIKE A RENTED MULE

and then I hurled things around the apartment for a while.

Curiously, winning the second game of the day hasn't really improved my mood any.

Do you think I'm crazy?

I do.

I almost Googled "How to deal with losing at chess" but then I thought

WHAT KIND OF A WIMP WOULD GO CRYING TO THE INTERNET LIKE THAT

I have to suck this up and spit it out, like <Kasparov> but with none of the talent and none of the work ethic.

However, I'm running the dam first game through my Shredder and taking notes and it's like torture but I'll be damned if I try this hard and don't learn anything even if all I learn is that I won't ever get any better at chess

also I drank 7 pots of coffee during the two games.

I'm going out for three or four runs now.

Ok that's my report!!

<Wood> have you ever had any problems with the Java crashing on <Yahoo chess> ?

Do you know any workarounds?

Tomorrow I'm going to play on <Gorilla Firefox> and I'm using my highest <tourament ID> because I'll be damened if I'm going to lie down for this.

I'm almost up to where I hung my <d-pawn> now.

Ok back later when I'm in a better mood.

Jiminy I am so rusty- my big "comeback" has me hanging pieces for cripe sake there's just no excuse for that on a long time control....

I'm never taking that long a break again from competition.

Maybe i should try to settle down a bit.

Your feistiness I only see as a GOOD and useful quality, as long as you do not get too down on yourself, for too long.

Guess what the line up for the semi finals of the womens <European> TOP 12 is (Table Tennis)

Li Jie - Li jia

&

Li Quang - Wushy Wu

Thanks <Chess Elephant>!!

heh

HAHAHAHAAAAHAH

What great names. Table tennis names are even more outlandish than Chess names.

Have you heard of <Alfred J. Kwak>?

I believe he is <Belgian>.

Google him for a peek.

Mrs. Has calmed down now that she's working on the carcass with her friendly analysis shredder.

I'm already looking forward to tomorrow's game.

Yep - you're definitely getting back in shape - these things may take a little time, you see, after a long lay-off. Get the patterns back in shape, and the confidence...

GOOD SHOW!!!

"Our" Li Jie just won the first semi!!

heh

The three other gooky girls are from Poland, Germany and Austria...

As an old Korean war vet, Instead of the famous "Go ahead, make my day" he says brilliantly: "Get off my lawn..."

Great role by Clint - I really ROFL at the ultimate grumpiness he portayed...

Clint: "I'll better go down into the basement to get a few more chairs.."

Son: "Shall I do it for you, dad?"

Clint: "No - I want to get them now, not next week."

hahahaa

heh I saw <Grand Tornado> last month already.

I also liked it a lot-- plenty of Tornado action and foreigners, as well, which is always fun.

Specially when Clint tells them to "get off my lawn" and then he starts threatening some other people.

And the car is cool too.

The film is pretty overvalued going by the reviews IMHO. <7.2> would be my rating for Gran torino, tops.

Seems I picked a bad decade to start recommending films to you.

I think you have access to master tapes while the movies are still in post-production phase...

Well they are "screeners"--

Thousands of people involved in the production of a film have access to these pre-release copies.

And a lot of them post them on the internet.

Ok just dropped a very short one but I listen to it all the time.

<Young Peter Gabriel> is my favorite singer by miles and miles.

Also, I noticed that you are compiling an impressive array of both pop-cultural and high-cultural web resources in your forum and profile.

UNgrateful bunch.

I discoverd a great DivXNL team on that site that has good screenings and all subtitled and one simple download file for VLC Mesia Player.

Pretty cool, huh?

They upload several films and TV series each day.