HAHhHhhHAHAHAHAAHAHAAHAH

Thanks! OK I'm most interested in the part of analysis that deals specifically with the effects- if any- of the <fawn pawn>.

To tell you the truth I'd like to do that on my own first.

Luckily, all such things can be edited.

<Blacksburger> What about President's Day?

Lots of them had slaves too.

Now perhaps I am morally bankrupt and thus not capable (nor worthy) of taking a morally-principled position. Perhaps most others are more capable (and worthy) of taking such positions. No doubt a few (Gandhi, Mandela) are.

Back to the issue. In the US at least, we value the protection of the minority from the "tyranny of the majority". Fine. I am all for it. However, it seems to me that there should be some limits on the "tyranny of the minority". If one person is offended is that enough? This way lies madness.

My attempt to define PC in terms of correctness was perhaps another of my cute tricks. These discussions fare better when not tethered to terms like PC as you pointed out in your learned treatise.

History is always suspect given the depravity of the historians. The Old Testament slam on the Egyptians comes to mind. I guess those writers were spooked by a culture so superior that it must have appeared as magic. So they had to tear it down with lies to make any sense of their destiny. And since the Egyptians had been so kind to give them land and meaningful work, the lies had to be real whoppers. Slavery indeed. They didn't have slaves in Egypt.

Historians who count the dead left behind by the conqueror are useful. Now we know how long it takes to kill 70,000 men in hand to hand combat. About 6 hours according to Hannibal at Cannae.

But few historians record the feelings of the great unwashed. When the Nazis try to march in Skokie, these unnamed citizens rise up to shout their objections. That's politics in action. We can't wait for the courts or legislators to work their magic. For then the moment will be lost and drained of all significance. We must oppose Nazism in every form as it is a plague upon the body of freedom.

Lots of them had slaves too.>

another bad analogy, and certainly we should not celebrate some individuals based solely on their being presidents. it's totally fair to criticize and condemn washington and jefferson for being slave owners.

my point is that having a national holiday named after an individual is basically a form of worship. and though Columbus may have had some major and significant achievements in his life, we should not worship him as some kind of saint.

to be fair, that's a very high standard, and certainly some <Veterans> have done reprehensible things, and <MLK Jr.> was no saint either...for example...

<One incident that caught the FBI's attention was the recording of a sexual encounter that took place at a 1964 party King was attending at the Willard Hotel in Washington D.C.[147] FBI technicians testified that they heard the sound of people engaged in a sexual encounter and King's voice exclaiming <<<"I'm f*****g for God!">>>>

hehehehehehhehehhehehhe

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mlk_jr...

this is a fair argument. i'll return to the example of south carolina. if the "tyranny of the minority" were to result in <private citizens> flying the confederate flag over their <private residence> being arrested and forced to take down their flags, this would be <madness>. but the issue here was a <public> <taxpayer supported> seat of a <representative> state government.

<The European conquest of the Americas is appalling but much good came out of it, too.>

to be clear, my main point is that there is a big difference between <European Discovery of the Americas> Day and <Columbus was a Super Cool Dude> Day.

<This supports Gandhiji's gray theory.> <"There has never been a human action- no matter how trivial or grand- that has had either all good, or all bad consequences.">

Hi blacksburg! IMHO if <that> were easy nobody would play chess anymore. I always try to be <pol corr> but I never know if I really am... That's why I prefer sometimes to play a correct game (perhaps also because white <is> white and black <is> black).

However, that opinion is not as important as this fact:

The faculty members who regarded <Osaka's> crusade to be idiotic but held their tongues for fear of being branded "anti-Indian" and "pro-colonialists."

The gutlessness of University Faculty is appalling- especially given that many of them have tenure-- and it's also a favorite topic among many, many Undergraduates.

All "heros" are spotted.

So either let them be or get rid of all of them.

"Fall Weekend"???

excuse me?

They couldn't come up with a <more vapid> name than that?

Why not just call it "Day"?

That would be more honest.

Actually, cancelling the holiday would be most honest, as <Howard> pointed out earlier.

Let's face it-- Brown Undergrads would allow it to be <Hitler Day> if it came down to having the day off or not having the day off.

And I was thinking of your example today, <Blacksburger>, believe it or not.

I was thinking OK say the Germans had made <Hitler Day>, and then after the war realized that was no longer a good idea.

Would they KEEP THE FREAKING HOLIDAY and re-name it "Fresh Breeze Day," or would they have the GUTS TO CANCEL the dam holiday???

That was one of <Howard's> objections earlier.

Also, I'd just like to throw in my personal opinion that I'm not a fan of <Columbus>.

<but the issue here was a <public> <taxpayer supported> seat of a <representative> state government.>

Does that mean that I no longer have to pay that portion of my tax bill that supports wars that I find unjust, or public policies that I disagree with on moral grounds? There is a difference between the ability/obligation to take political action on moral issues (including not paying taxes and civil disobedience) <without being willing to accept the consequences> and taking such action <AND> being willing to take the consequences.

People like Mandela spent a lot of time in jail, but eventually won the moral battle because of the example that he set.

I think I have hit on my basic objection: The <PC> crowd always thinks that it should win but never thinks that there are consequences.

<A.J.: It says, in this book, that Christopher Columbus was a slave trader.

Well, like this:

On the issue of America becoming a dual language country-

<If speaking American was good enough for Jesus, it's good enough for my kids>.

If the conservatives hadn't been so objectionable, then the PC pseudo-liberal fascists wouldn't have arisen in the first place.

<Howard> yes you are a liberal- and thus must be opposed to the <PC Brigade>, because, as I pointed out at length, they tout the most illiberal set of "ideas" imaginable.

<John Stuart Mill> would regard them, accurately, as a menace to truth, knowledge, and the pursuit of learning. He regarded this to be a dialectical process.

You know, where you actually have to erect coherent arguments to critique other people's arguments.

Not just brand them as <politically incorrect>

well, <have to> maybe isn't the best choice of words there...you are still <legally obligated> to pay your taxes, but you are always free to choose not to, if you are willing to suffer the consequences.

if you don't feel like pulling a Thoreau, then your only recourse is to vote for someone who will choose a different policy.

<The <PC> crowd always thinks that it should win but never thinks that there are consequences.>

i would rephrase this - the <PC> crowd will only accept the consequences of disobedience if the consequences of the status quo are even more disagreeable.

kids during Vietnam had no hesitance about burning their draft cards and accepting the consequences of that action, because they knew that the alternative - being shot to death in some jungle - was even worse than going to jail.

but kids today that object to the Iraq war don't seem to be willing to accept the consequences of disobedience, i.e. choosing not to pay taxes, do they? it's not a coincidence that Iraq is being fought by a volunteer force. if the US started drafting kids to go to Iraq, i suspect that the anti-war movement would become a bit more...vocal, to say the least.

http://www.bobby-fischer.net/bobby_...

Yes I know the site- It's got a few security issues. I have my new PC loaded with security software and My computer practially had a fit when I just clicked on the site.

heh...

Also, the site is not updated regularly.

usa IS a dual language country spanish and english when the black slaves were freed mexican slavery was expanded and our "economy" has been resting on the back of migrant/illegal labor ever since. EVERY vegetable picked is by mexican hands for pennies.

Except for black/mexican prison labor for fractions of pennies.

Burn them draft cards.

That's crazy talk! You always make sense.

Home stretch- 7 pages to go

GHOD I can't wait for it to be over.

Freeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

Nelson Mandela

<PETA has asked the Pet Shop Boys to change the band's name to Rescue Shelter Boys.

The band has turned down a request from an animal rights group to rename itself the Rescue Shelter Boys.>