|
< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 456 OF 914 ·
Later Kibitzing> |
| Jan-11-13 | | Shams: <Blunderdome><All we have against Clemens is a former trainer/unreliable witness saying he injected him with drugs. Can't hang a man on that. We'll probably never really know.> Don't we also have Andy Pettite's word for it? Pettite has always struck me as trustworthy. |
|
Jan-11-13
 | | Phony Benoni: <Blunderdome> Thanks. Don't expect any campaign from me to retain the title. I prefer a Front Porch Campaign in these matters. |
|
| Jan-11-13 | | Blunderdome: <Don't we also have Andy Pettite's word for it?> Not that I know of. He and Pettitte were both pointed at by the same guy (Grimsley), which may be what you're thinking of. It's all very Salem Witch Trials / McCarthyism / etc. <The evidence against Clemens is pretty damning> No, the evidence against him is just rumor. It's popular opinion against him that's damning. |
|
| Jan-11-13 | | Blunderdome: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andy_P... |
|
| Jan-11-13 | | Jim Bartle: I believe you're right about Clemens. My mistake. At the trial the prosecution ended up with McNamara and little else, according to Sports Illustrated: From an SI story on his acquittal:
"As for the trial itself, one of the most telling scenes took place with Clemens at one of his career lows: in the visitors clubhouse at Fenway after getting crushed by the Boston Red Sox in the 1999 ALCS, while the crowd taunted him with chants of "Where is Roger?" And when Yankees GM Brian Cashman ambled through the clubhouse during that game and found a beaten Clemens, this is what came to Clemens in his moment of despair: Get me Mac. He convinced the Yankees to hire McNamee, with Clemens footing the bill. McNamee was that important and trustworthy to Clemens. "The two of them were inseparable, typically with Andy Pettitte close by. We know that Pettitte, Clemens' close friend and workout partner, used HGH and used McNamee as his supplier and facilitator. We know that Debbie Clemens, Roger's wife, used HGH and used McNamee as her supplier and facilitator. Other Yankees obtained their drugs and the how-tos of using them from McNamee. But we are left to believe that Clemens, while forging a closer bond with McNamee than anyone else, found a second stage to his career only on the magic of hard work and a split-finger fastball, as if he were the only baseball player to "work hard." I once worked out with Clemens and McNamee to experience the famous Clemens work ethic, after which he repaired to a Manhattan diner for a bacon cheeseburger the size of a Buick." Circumstantial but highly suspicious.
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/20... |
|
Jan-11-13
 | | Eggman: Hey, PB. Would you mind adding to Todd Southam's biography that he won the 1988 Canadian Junior? I know, I was one of the participants. |
|
| Jan-11-13 | | TheFocus: Congratulations on Best Username!! |
|
| Jan-11-13 | | playground player: If a played excelled during the Steroids Era without cheating, and doesn't make it into the Hall of Fame, it isn't the fans or the HoF voters who have injured him--it's the other players of his era who tainted the whole sport with their cheating. |
|
| Jan-11-13 | | Jim Bartle: Interesting to think about. Look at good players like Brady Anderson who bulked up (steroids or not) and went from 16 homers to 50. Dante Bichette. I guess it was largely the Roberto Alomar types--fast, good defense, medium power-- who were hurt the most. But Bonds was a really great and more exciting player pre- bulk up, fast and dynamic. But he and others weren't satisfied, and I guess the steroid- users made the majors while honest players didn't. |
|
| Jan-11-13 | | Blunderdome: <playground player> I would say the HOF voters have injured him <if> they aren't voting for him because of vague suspicions. If you just mean that player who would have stood out did not because the competition bulked up, I agree that that would be the cheaters' fault. |
|
| Jan-11-13 | | Jim Bartle: Again, I certainly think Piazza and Biggio deserve to be in, and neither was ever under any suspicion. Next year, Maddux and Frank Thomas are shoo-ins, and maybe Glavine as well. I do think a lot of players who didn't cheat didn't get their chances, or excel when playing, because others did cheat. Little question about that. I remember going to see the Giants play for the first time in many years in 2002, and just being shocked at Bonds' size. Nothing at all like the player from the mid-90s. |
|
Jan-11-13
 | | WannaBe: Of course M. Piazza should get in, he's a Dodgers!! (And Marlin, and Mets =) |
|
| Jan-11-13 | | Jim Bartle: Plus Roger Clemens threw a splintered bat at him.
I saw a two-hour documentary on Piazza's career as a Marlin. Fascinating. If you're looking at Dodgers for the Hall of Fame, just hope for a few more good years from Matt Kemp. A great player. |
|
Jan-12-13
 | | Phony Benoni: I thought it was a splittered bat. |
|
Jan-12-13
 | | chancho: A 76 yard punt return for a touchdown by Holliday.
Denver 7 Baltimore 0
Manning was laughing like a giddy schoolgirl. |
|
Jan-12-13
 | | chancho: Wow!
Flacco just tied the game with a bomb!
59 yard TD. |
|
Jan-12-13
 | | WannaBe: Manning just threw an INT pick for 6 points. |
|
| Jan-12-13 | | Jim Bartle: Looked like pass interference to me. |
|
Jan-12-13
 | | chancho: Manning just tied the game with a TD. |
|
Jan-12-13
 | | WannaBe: This game is getting to be 'ridiculous' high scoring, last team with the ball wins (?!) |
|
Jan-12-13
 | | WannaBe: Anyone took the over on this BAL-DEN game?! Anyone? Anyone? Bueller? Bueller? |
|
| Jan-12-13 | | Jim Bartle: You mean the over on the temperature? |
|
Jan-12-13
 | | WannaBe: <JB> I think they said it feels like 2 degrees with wind chill. Brrrrrrr!! Be a little warmer at Candlestick, sun is (still) out, but it's crisp and chilly. However, no snow. =) |
|
Jan-12-13
 | | WannaBe: Correction, negative two with wind chill, which is five degrees colder than 2. Big difference. =)) |
|
Jan-12-13
 | | Phony Benoni: <WannaBe: Correction, negative two with wind chill, which is five degrees colder than 2. Big difference. =))> Too cold to take off your gloves to count? |
|
 |
 |
|
< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 456 OF 914 ·
Later Kibitzing> |