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< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 3 OF 3 ·
Later Kibitzing > |
| Nov-30-07 |
| rigel1503: I never considered the best move 21. Nf5 for long, but I feel 21. Qc3 wins as well even against 21. ... Be5. I think 22. Bf4 will win for white, eg 21. Qc3 Be5 22. Bf4 Nc6 23. Bxe5+ Nxe5 24. Rxd7 Rd8 25. Nf3 Rxd7 26. exd7 Qe7 27. d8=Q+ Qxd8 28. Qxe5+ and white's extra knight must win, OR 24. ... Nxd7 25. Nf5+ OR 24. ... Rc8 25. Nc6 Qxe6 26. Qxe5+ Qxe5 27. Nxe5, however, Beliavsky's choice of 21. Nf5 is undoubtedly the most efficient |
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| Nov-30-07 |
| znprdx: well 21.e6xd7[B] Nxe6 22.Rxg7[B] Kxg7[R]seems 'unclear' but 'nuclear' is 21.Nf5! since if g6xf5[N] 22.Qxf5 the mate threat at h7 permanently cripples Black as White picks off the pieces. However I won't be surprised if I'm not quite right.... move order is critical in these kind of positions. |
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| Nov-30-07 |
| CapAnson: I actually got it. I wish I could say otherwise but Nf5 just randomly popped into my head. The rest isn't too difficult once you find that move. |
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| Nov-30-07 |
| wouldpusher: <eaglewing> <I would be interested in the defense 21...Qxe6 instead of 21. ... Bxe6.> The line should, at the best defense for Black's side, go like 21. ...  xe6 22.  xg7 gxf5 23. g5  c6 24.  d4+ e5 25. g3 e8 26. xe5+ xe5 27. g8+ xg8 28. xe5+ g7 29. b8+ g8 30. xb7  Similar to the line I pointed above, White's passed pawns should decide the game. Seems that this defense will also ward off mate until much later. Thanks for pointing that line out. |
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Nov-30-07
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| gawain: I thought about starting with 21 Bh6 but the most W gets for this is a perpetual check after 21 ...Bxh6 22 Qc3! Kg8 23 Nf5 gxf5 24 Qg3+ It's pretty, though, isn't it? |
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| Nov-30-07 |
| wouldpusher: Oops, <zanshin> seems to have posted the ... Qxe6 line above already. At first, I didn't consider 21. Qc3! to be best, but after reviewing some lines posted above, I'm convinced that it is more forcing than the text. |
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| Nov-30-07 |
| znprdx: oops - I was seeing things - I needed my second coffee - my mind was clearing pieces as if I was curling. So near and yet so far. A really fascinating study and superb analysis by everyone - a real pleasure, despite the humiliation of my impulsive implosion:) |
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Nov-30-07
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| kevin86: Clearing pieces? curling? Don't tell me I found another curling fan!! Hard! Hard! Hurry!! The final position is quite amusing-white will mate soon sith queen and bishop. 26... e8 27 c5 and mate next move at e7 or f8.
26...e6 27 e5+ f7 28 f6+ e8 (or g8 29 g7#) 29 c5 and mate as above
Looks like a waltz,doesn't it? lol |
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Nov-30-07
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| YouRang: I felt pretty lost trying to figure this one out, and I pretty much struck out. The line I considered was interesting, but flawed: I went with: 21. Qf1!?, which pretty much freezes black's bishop lest I play Rf7+. Black is short on moves, so I figure he might play some benign move like 21...a6 or 21...Kg8. My master scheme was take advantage of black's underdevelopment with: 21...Kg8 <say>
22. Rxg7+! Kxg7
23. Bh6+! Kxh6
24. Qf6! (diagram)
click for larger view
Note: <White threatens: 25. Nf5+ Kh5 26. Qh4#> 24...Bxe6 <only way I can see to stop threat> 25. Nxe6 <new threat: Qg5#> And black can stop this only by giving up his queen for the knight: 25...Qxe6 26. Qxe5 and white should win Q vs. R+N endgame. With this lovely pair of sacrifices to produce a Q+N mating net, I was sufficiently pleased with myself that I stopped looking. However, checking with the computer, I see that black pretty much gets out of trouble with 21. h6 or 21. h5. Oh well. I didn't see 21. Nf5 at all, nor did I see the more simple 21. Qc3 (I think I should have looked there). :-( |
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Nov-30-07
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| Jimfromprovidence: I did not realize that after 22... Qxe6?? it's a forced mate in 7 moves for white!! Black should have played 22... Qxf7; he would have been around a bit longer. |
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| Nov-30-07 |
| zb2cr: Missed, missed, missed. I didn't see any good continuation from 21. Nf5, Bxe6; 22. Rxg7, Bxf5. In other words, I didn't look as far into the position as <wouldpusher>. |
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Nov-30-07
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| YouRang: <Addendum to my post above> <<new threat: Qg5#> And black can stop this only by giving up his queen for the knight: 25...Qxe6 26. Qxe5 and white should win Q vs. R+N endgame.> I should have pointed out that black might try to prevent Qg5# with 25...Qb5 <guarding g5>, but then white finishes with a pretty mate: 26. Qg7+ Kh5 27. Qxh7+ Kg4 28. Qh3#. Amazing how well the Q and N work together. |
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| Nov-30-07 |
| DukeAlba: The way solved it was different the first time but now I have corrected it it in light of some alternative continuation (anyone please feel free to correct me, I'm a beginner and I would appreciate any help) 21. Ne5 Bxe6
22. Re7 Qg8
23. Rxg7 Qxg7
24. Qd8+
Now I guess that if black plays 24...Qg8 then 25. Bd4#. But lets assume black plays another move. 24....Bg8
25. Nxg7 Kxg7
26. Qe7+
Then if black plays 26...Kh8 then he loses to 26...Bd4. But lets assume again that black plays differently. 26....Bf7
27. Bd4+
Then again black has the option. If he plays 27...Kh8 he immediately loses to 28. Qd8+ Be8 followed by the move 29. Qxe8#. But yet again lets assume black plays differently. 27...Kh6
28. Qxf7 Kh5 (Although this is not forced I don't see black with any other moves that are any better( Then what follows is obviously mate in a few moves. |
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Nov-30-07
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| patzer2: For today's puzzle solution, White's winning combination begins with the clearance sacrifice 21. Nf5!!, which forces 21...gxf6 because of the threat of a winning windmill discovered check set-up (i.e. if 21...Bxe6 22. Rxg7 Bxf5 23. Qc3 as noted by <malaya2006> & <woodpusher>). After 21. Nf5!! gxf6, the unusual pin of Bishop on Bishop, 22. Bd4!, forces 22...Qxe6. This enables the reply 23. Rf8+, which forces the game continuation 23...Qg8 24. Rxg8 kxg8 and allows 25. Qg3! with a second and decisive pin. |
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| Nov-30-07 |
| DukeAlba: Thank You <patzer2> I like your explanation, it was very simple. |
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| Nov-30-07 |
| DukeAlba: By the way, <patzer2> you have an impressive game collection! |
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Nov-30-07
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| patzer2: Of course <al wazir>'s (and also Fritz 19's) 21. Qc3!! sets up overwhelming threats against the weakened castled position, and may be an even better "human" than computer solution to today's puzzle. |
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Nov-30-07
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| patzer2: <DukeAlba> You're welcome. I'm glad you like the collection. |
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Nov-30-07
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| patzer2: Anyone care to venture exactly where Black went wrong in this game? I'm not a big fan of the early 8...Qb6, as the more solid 8...Nc6 as in F Kuijpers vs Botvinnik, 1963 would appear to give Black better long-term prospects. However, Black seemed to do OK with 8...Qb6 after 9. Be3 Qa5 (declining the poison pawn offer) in Jacimovic vs V Kovacevic, 1989. In any event, White's piece sacrifice 18. Raf1!!, offering the White Knight for an overwhelming attack on the weak castled position, appears to be sound. |
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| Nov-30-07 |
| newzild: I got the order wrong, playing Rxg7 first, then Nf5.
This is the first one I've missed this week. Much harder, and a very impressive game. |
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Nov-30-07
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| YouRang: <patzer2: Anyone care to venture exactly where Black went wrong in this game? > Good question. It's hard to believe that this could be decisive, but it appears that things started going downhill for black after he grabbed the b2 pawn with 9...Qxb2. Sure, black is up a pawn, but at the cost of burning up several tempos and accepting awkward queen position for the rest of the game. Taking the b2 pawn also reveals that black underestimated how quickly and efficiently white could mount a kingside offensive - all while black's queen is trapped queenside. Here is how things went downhill for black:
<1> 9...Qxb2 - takes pawn, but with costs discussed above. <2> 10...Qb4 - another tempo spent trying to get the queen back into the game. <3> 11. e5! - White begins a sequence that takes control of the center and opens the f-file for his rook. <4> 14. Rf4! - White develops his rook with tempo (attacking bishop). Black must burn another tempo to save the bishop(14...Bd7). <5> 15. Nd5! - White develops his knight with tempo (attacking queen). Black must burn yet another tempo to save queen (15...Qa5) -- and it's STILL awkwardly placed. <6> 16. Nxe7+ - So white gets the pawn back, again with tempo (check). <7> 17...Qd8 - Yes, another tempo burning queen move -- just to return the queen back to her home square! Anyway, you can see that since move #9, white has been developing and black has been shuffling. It's not hard to see why, by move #18, black is terribly underdeveloped and white has a robust attack underway. I would say that Pb2 was poisoned. |
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Nov-30-07
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| GannonKnight: Missed ... I dismissed 21. Nf5 a bit too early. I knew that somehow you had to get the black Bishop out of the way, but I didn't see that way. It looks so easy now ... 4/5 so far ... |
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Nov-30-07
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| RandomVisitor: After 9.Be3, best for black is likely 9...Nc6:
FEN: 
click for larger view (23-ply)
1. (0.05): 9...Nc6 10.Qd3 Ng4 11.Bxg4 Bxd4 12.Bxd4 Qxd4+ 13.Qxd4 Nxd4 14.Bd1 f5 15.Nd5 fxe4 16.Nxe7+ Kg7 17.Re1 Bf5 18.c3 Rae8 19.Nd5 Nc6 20.g4 Bd7 21.g5 2. (0.24): 9...Qa5 10.Nb3 Qc7 11.Bf3 Nc6 12.Qe2 Bd7 13.Rad1 Rfe8 14.a3 Na5 15.Nxa5 Qxa5 16.Bd4 e5 17.fxe5 dxe5 18.Be3 Bc6 19.Rd6 |
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| Dec-01-07 |
| CaptGeorge: I still new at this, but I missed it. I thought 21.Nf5 Qxe6 refuted N move. Oh, well. |
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Dec-01-07
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| patzer2: <You Rang> <RV>, Thanks for the analysis and suggested improvements. |
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Later Kibitzing > |
