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Atanas Kolev vs Judit Polgar
Budapest Zonal Group-A (1993), Budapest HUN, Mar-??
King's Indian Attack: Symmetrical Defense (A05)  ·  0-1


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sac: 23...Ra1+ PGN: download | view | print Help: general | java-troubleshooting

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Kibitzer's Corner
< Earlier Kibitzing  · PAGE 4 OF 4 ·  Later Kibitzing>
Jan-20-11  Arcturus: Very strange week, missed Monday's and Tuesday's but got Wednesday's and today's instantly, including Nb1. Perhaps tomorrow I should refuse to look . . . . .
Jan-20-11  Deathstroke: <culei> I certainly apologize for not reading the lines you posted. I generally read through the entire top page of comments before I post, and I missed your note regarding Qc2. My bad.

That being said, take it easy. You don't own the puzzle, nor the solution. I posted because I was excited that I found these lines on my own before reading the posts, and I wanted to see if I was out-to-lunch.

Don't take it personally; we're all here to improve our game, not to grandstand.

By the way... Qc2 is a very good move. Congrats.

Jan-20-11  estrick: <gofer: I am really struggling to find a win against Crafty EGT >

Devilishly difficult

Premium Chessgames Member
  Jimfromprovidence: I liked 24...Bg4 after 23...Ra1+ 24 Nb1 because of the multiple threats it creates.

click for larger view

The rook and queen are skewered and the e knight is unprotected.

25 f3 helps white but black now puts on more pressure with 25...Qxe4, below with the threat of 26...Rxb1+.

click for larger view

Now, if white follows with 26 fxe4, then 26… Bxe2 27 Bxa1 Bxa1 leaves black ahead material and white’s pawn position in tatters.

click for larger view

<mrsaturdaypants> <By the way, Jim, are you related to John from Cincinnati?)>

I’ve never been to Cincinnati, but I remember the show as one of the worst ones HBO has ever aired. It was from the same creator as Deadwood astoundingly.

Premium Chessgames Member
  Once: <culei: Why do people just post their ideas while not reading other peoples ideas >

In part, it's how this site works. Invented, I believe, by <dzechiel> is the idea of posting "blind". Some folks will try to work out the puzzle on their own and without computer assistance and then will post what they come up with.

It's a bit like juggling with chainsaws. When it works, you look like a superhero. And every now and again it doesn't work and you chop an arm off.

It can be a little frustrating when everyone posts more or less the same thing or if a good move that you have spotted doesn't get noticed. But we're generally pretty tolerant and easy-going. Not worth losing sleep over, unlike suffering bruin's neighbour.

Jan-20-11  OneArmedScissor: got it almost instantly
Jan-20-11  culei: Its that I really really want to get the solution so I seek help but I get frustrated when I only read people saying how easy it is And I broke my head to get it

Deathstroke I don't take it personal
I just want you to help me to get an answer

Jan-20-11  redorc19: question: after looking through the kibitzing it occurs to me that, in complicated chess games as well as in puzzles of the day, people use computers to get their answers? Or do they only use it to check and analyse lines after looking at the answer? I'm am only twelve years old, and when i try to answer the puzzle of the day I use neither board not engine... am I doing something wrong here?
Jan-20-11  BOSTER: This is the position after black have pushed his pawn to 22...e4 .

click for larger view

Here white maybe without any hesitations took this pawn with Nc3,opening the long diagonal a1-h8. Maybe it was the wrong knight, maybe d2 knight should be at stake, and maybe if white was not afraid to sacr b3 pawn, they could take pawn e4 with knight d2,opening the "d" file for his rook with many chances for attack, and protecting the queen's side by the queen e2.

Jan-20-11  MindBoggle: A nice, but easy tactic. 23...Ra1+ forces 24.Nb1, dropping the N on e4.
Jan-20-11  Fuegoverde: Got it! 23...Ra1+!now if 24 Bxa1 Qa3+ or 24 Kc2 Nb4++!! or if 24 Nb1 Rxb1+, 25 Kb1 Qe4+ is enough for a win
Premium Chessgames Member
  CHESSTTCAMPS: <culei:> <what you should be worried about is after 25...qxe4 Qc2 ... This is also for you chessttcamps.>

You are absolutely right, on this point anyway. I should have examined 26.Qc2. Based upon a few tries against Crafty EGT, I doubt very much that black can win with B+N versus rook against best defense after 24... Rxb1+. There are too many technical problems. However, I won on the very first attempt with 24...Bg4!!, the supersharp find of <JimfromProvidence>.

If anyone can win the (colors reversed) position set up by <gofer> using 24...Rxb1+ (Rxg8+ in reversed position), please post the moves.

Premium Chessgames Member
  CHESSTTCAMPS: BTW, I also tried 24... Bf5 against Crafty (which I'd looked at before my first post) and it worked out no better than 24... Rxb1+.
Premium Chessgames Member
  Ken MacGillivray: <Redorc19> <am I doing something wrong here?> You are doing just fine. Solving the puzzles unaided is the way to go along the road to improvement.
Jan-20-11  culei: Redorc19
Thatsthe way I do it also just that sometimes on complicated games like this one I'd like to have a chessboard to see if I don't make a dumb mistake And regarding chess computers I don't have one and I check this on my cell phone so I dontthink you are wrong But everyone has a way of improvement find yours
Premium Chessgames Member
  Phony Benoni: <Redorc19> If you want to improve your play, then you're doing it the right way, and I think it's the method a majority of us follow. Those who use computers will generally acknowledge the source of their analysis; for example, <Once> often studies variations throughout the game with the help of Fritz.

The computer will help answer questions, but you need to study the position carefully yourself to know the right questions to ask.

There are two parts to studying these puzzles: the tactical ideas, and the variations that justify the ideas. Early in the week, the ideas are usually quite simple, the variations few and generally forced. As the week goes on, ideas become more complex and are combined, the variations longer and more complicated. By Sunday, most are happy if they can get a glimpse of the main idea and the first couple of moves.

Buy the way, note that I wrote studying, not solving. Often, these puzzles have no precise, totally convincing answer. Today's is an example; Black winds up with a material advantage, but it's not immediately crushing.

Puzzles are very simple if you've seen the idea before or if you don't consider the best defense. We've had a bunch of examples this week.

Jan-20-11  WhiteRook48: 23...Ra1+ 24 Bxa1 Qa3+ and black infiltrates any way
Jan-20-11  estrick: Kolev is currently rated FIDE 2571. I wonder how he missed 24. Nb1?
Jan-20-11  wals: Yes, a winner at last.
Premium Chessgames Member
  lost in space: saw it instantly.
Jan-20-11  TheBish: A Kolev vs Judit Polgar, 1993

Black to play (23...?) "Medium"

Black breaks down White's defenses with 23...Ra1+!. Now:

A) 24. Bxa1 Qa3+ 25. Kc2 (or 25. Bb2 Qxb2# or 25. Kb1 Qxa1+ 26. Kc2 Nb4#) Nb4+ 26. Kb1 Qxa1#.

B) 24. Nb1 Rxb1+! 25. Kxb1 Qxe4+ 26. Kc1 Qxh4 and Black wins two knights and at least one pawn for the rook.

C) 24. Kc2 Nb4# is a very quick way to end it.

Jan-21-11  culei: The bish you wrote
B) 24. Nb1 Rxb1+! 25. Kxb1 Qxe4+ 26. Kc1 Qxh4 and Black wins two knights and at least one pawn for the rook. Ifyou do queen xh4
You left you're bishop hanging and the rook takes it
And that cannot be good
Jan-21-11  TheBish: Whoops. Kinda rushed my analysis (was close to becoming the next day, which it is now). After 24. Nb1 Rxb1+ 25. Kxb1 Qxe4+ 26. Kc1, Black would have to save her Bd7, which she could do with 26...Bg4! 27. Qd3 Bxb2+ 28. Kxb2 Qe5+ and Black will soon win the exchange.
Premium Chessgames Member
  Once: <redorc19> It's a very good question. I always start by trying to solve without a computer and without looking at the kibitzing.

And if it's a simple puzzle I will stop there and not bother with Fritz. If I've got the same solution as everyone else I usually don't bother posting it.

I'll only use Fritz after that if there is an interesting variation to explore or if others have asked questions like "what happens if..." or "why didn't white play..."

And in both cases I am trying to learn and/or help others on this site. In purely human mode, I am trying to improve my calculation skills. And when I am working with Fritz I am trying to learn more about the position.

And that for me is the value of this site. You get a traditional chess puzzle, which I will always try to solve in human mode. Then you get a chess discussion which goes deeper into the position and different peoples' ideas about variations. Computers can help with the second bit (the discussion), but they usually devalue the first bit (the puzzle).

Feb-09-11  redorc19: Thanks, <Once>, <Phoney Benoni>et al> I'll take that into consideration!
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