< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 2 OF 2 ·
|Mar-13-08|| ||Eyal: <This must have been a frustrating game for Ribli.>
Especially since he missed several winning shots at earlier stages, such as <41.Be7!> - and there's no good defense against the threats of Qxf7 and Bf6 followed by Bxg7+ and Qf6. E.g. 41...Rg8 42.Bf6 Kh7 43.Qg4; or 41...Rc1 42.Rxg7! Kxg7 43.Qg2+ Kh7 44.Bf6.|
|Mar-13-08|| ||kevin86: 52...♗f6!!!!! an absolutly brilliant move! The veiled mate threat at h4 prevents 53 ♖xg8 and forces white to take the bishop. Black,then can use the open g-file to his benefit by exchanging rooks at g3 and then forcing the perpetual. |
I missed this one-I even tried the sac at g3 with the queen but white just takes with her own lady-a king capture would allow double check.
|Mar-13-08|| ||Magic Castle: <LKor: Found it instantly. Actually, there is not much of a choice for other moves> What is instantly to you? A second, a minute, an hour or a day? I understand "instantly" as a split of a second. Then you must really be a super genius and should be playing Anand or Kramnik. There is so much in this position that I saw. The possibility of mate if white captures black rook; the possibility of perpetual checks, the possibility of a stalemate, and there is also a possibility of white losing the game not only after white captures the rook. All of these cannot be calculated "instantly" unless one is a super genius. Now does that make you feel good . Honestly, I am sincere. No insult intended.|
|Mar-13-08|| ||Aristarchos: I did find the solution but then considered the final position of the game a bit longer and wondered why Ribli did not try 55. Kg4 Qxe4+ 56. Kh5 Qf5+ 57. Bg5 gxh5 58. Qxh5 Qf3+ (Qe4, Qd3) 59. Qg4. He would still have been up a pawn, and it is not clear to me whether he would not have had some chances to win. Is this endgame a theoretical draw if Black avoids exchanging queens?|
|Mar-13-08|| ||Eyal: <Aristarchos: I did find the solution but then considered the final position of the game a bit longer and wondered why Ribli did not try 55. Kg4 Qxe4+ 56. Kh5 Qf5+ 57. Bg5 gxh5 [hxg5]>|
That should probably be a draw as well, but instead of 57...hxg5, Black can simply keep checking the white king on g6 and f5.
|Mar-13-08|| ||zooter: Well, I did see that the bishop is the only unprotected piece of white and Bf6 nicely attacks the bishop as Rxg8 would lead to Qh5 mate..|
but should black really be that desperate for a draw in this position? Just because he's a pawn down, I don't see any easy win for white...
|Mar-13-08|| ||Eyal: <but should black really be that desperate for a draw in this position? Just because he's a pawn down, I don't see any easy win for white...>|
As <Marmot PFL> already mentioned, there's really nothing else for Black to play - except for 52...Bf6, he's in virtual zugzwang after 52.Qg2. Other bishop moves simply drop the rook (or the bishop, in case of 52...Bxe5 53.Rxg8 Qe3+ 54.Rg3 Bxg3 55.Qxg3). If the queen leaves the e1-h4 diagonal then Bf6 wins for White, since after Bxf6 Rxg8 Black wouldn't have Qxh4. Kh8 also loses to Bf6, since Rxg8 would be played with a check. The rook can't move from g8, of course, because it has to defend the bishop. And all possible pawn moves are fatally weakening: 52...h5 53.Qf3; 52...f6 53.Bb4! Qxb4 54.exf6; 52...f5 53.exf5 exf5 54.Qf3.
So in fact, 52.Qg2 almost forces Black to make the saving move...
|Mar-13-08|| ||012: Wednesday puzzle <29. ?> Mar-12-08 G Atwood vs J Wilson, 1801|
|Mar-13-08|| ||UdayanOwen: Black is down a pawn, and I can't find a fancy way for black to win something.|
So I'll play to draw with <52...Bf6>
The wide-eyed 53.Rxg8?? Qxh4# would be lovely.
So, the main moves are:
Variation 1 <52...Bf6 53.Bxf6>
Variation 2 <52...Bf6 53.exf6>
Both allow perpetual check.
<53.Bxf6 Rxg3+ 54.Qxg3 Qh1+ 55.Kg4>
If white doesn't play 55.Kg4 now, he will be forced to play it anyway after 55.Qh2 Qf3+ 56.Qg3 Qh1+, otherwise white will repeat this sequence for a draw.
56.Kh3 Qh1+ 57.Kg4 Qe4+
56.Qf4 Qg2+ 57.Qg3 (57.Kh5?? Qg6#) 57...Qe4+
Both these moves would lead to a repetition if white doesn't go on and play 58.Kh5, which transposes to my main line.
<56...Qf5+ 57.Bg5 Qg6+>
57...hxg5? 58.Qxg5 Qf3+ (58...Qxg5?? 59.Kxg5 with a lost endgame ) 59.Qg4 Qe3, threatening 60.Qh6#, and black will also have sufficient resources to draw, but the main line is a clean forced repetition.
<58.Kg4 Qf5+ 59.Kh5 Qg6+ etc.> draw by repetetion.
Variation B works essentially the same except that white loses if his king goes to h5:
<52...Bf6 53.exf6 Rxg3+ 54.Qxg3 Qh1+ 55.Kg4>
55.Qh2 Qf3+ 56.Qg3 Qh1+ again gets white nowhere
56.Kh3 Qh1+ 57.Kg4 Qe4+ gets nowhere
56.Kh5?? Qf5 57.Qg5 hxg5
Again if 57.Kh5?? Qg6#
<57...Qf4+> and white has no way out of the perpetual checking mechanism.
There are no alternatives for white on move 53. He can't avoid the perpetual AND preserve his bishop.
Eg., 53.Kh2 (guarding the h1 checking square) 53...Rxg3 54.Qxg3 Qxg3 55.Kxg3 Bxe7.
Or, 53.Bd6 Rxg3+ 54.Qh1+ and all the same mechanisms work.
|Mar-13-08|| ||UdayanOwen: <zooter: should black really be that desperate for a draw in this position? Just because he's a pawn down, I don't see any easy win for white>|
Even if not for <Eyal's> lucid explanation of black's plight, a simple response would be, why grovel for a draw when you can force one?
|Mar-13-08|| ||JG27Pyth: Very frustrating -- so close! I saw that black needed to play for draw... I determined that there was no tricky way to force stalemate. I found the mate threat that lets black play Bf6, (and that _is_ the move I would have played OTB) I saw the Queen check coming at h1 that starts the perpetual, but for some reason I couldn't actually find the perpetual because I didn't see the darn Qxe4 check that seals the deal. It feels like with every puzzle past wednesday I'm always one mental click away from a locked in & tight solution. :( |
1/2 credit, on a draw so that's a 1/4 point. ;)
|Mar-13-08|| ||YouRang: Shoot. I assumed there was a win to be found.
Today I learned that it's very hard to find things that aren't really there.
Clever drawing tactic though.
|Mar-13-08|| ||gawain: I could not decide if black was playing for a draw or a win but I could see that 52...Bf6 must be today's answer because of the very terrible thing that happens to white if he replies 53 Rxg8.|
|Mar-13-08|| ||SuperPatzer77: No question about the draw by perpetual checks with the Black Queen. 55. Kg4 Qxe4+, 56. Kh5 Qf5+, 57. Bg5 (not 57. Qg5??? hxg5 ) Qg6+, 58. Kg4 Qf5+ leads to an unquestionable draw by repetition with perpetual checks. After 57. Bg5, 57...hxg5 could give White a slight advantage so, it is simple for Black - 57 Bg5 Qg6+, 58. Kg4 Qf5+ and etc - it is a simple draw by repetition.|
|Mar-13-08|| ||Pixeo: Found it instantly too: 52..Bf6. (After reading the Thread, instantly means 3 seconds.) Just took me a little more to answer "Why forcing a draw?"|
|Mar-13-08|| ||TrueBlue: 4/4, am I getting better or are the puzzles getting easier?!?!? I don't think I am getting better because Crafty still beats me, but 4 puzzles, no problems so far this week.|
|Mar-13-08|| ||Samagonka: What a complicated "Sunday" puzzle! I don't even know where to start!!!|
|Mar-13-08|| ||wals: Noting think:- The dendrites are crackling and the synapses snapping so|
forward to TPOTD
There are no loose unguarded pieces.or those that can be attacked by those of lesser value.
No discovered attacks. Back rank not weak.
The black bishop is pinned to the black rook by two white pieces.Removal of one would lessen the load.
52. ...Qxf3 53.Qxf3 ...Bxe5
if 54.Qxe5 cannot see any continuation. Rook g1 no advantage.
Is the White Queen overworked guarding the rook and the King?
52. ...Bxe5 53.RxR8 ...Qe3+ 54.Rg3 ...Bxg3 and black has continuation
Damn, outsmarted again
Brain score L0.15 R0.02
|Mar-13-08|| ||johnlspouge: Thursday (Medium): Black to play and draw
Material: Down a P. Black is under extreme pressure in a position where both Ks are vulnerable. The main theater is the g-file, where the White battery Qg2 and Rg3 is pinning Bg7 to Rg8. The Bg7 will fall once after Be7 joins the attack. Both Ks are on white squares, immune to checks from the two dark-squared Bs. Black might dream of a stalemate, but his Kh7 has the flight square h8, and Ph6 can move. His main hope is a perpetual check based on a discovered attack on Rg3.
Candidates (52...): Bf6
52...Bf6 (threatening 53...Rxg3+ 54.Qxg3 Qxg3+ 55.Kxg3 Bxe7)
White cannot accept the passive sacrifice of Rg8:
so he has two options: (1) 53.exf6 or (2) 53.Bxf6.
53. exf6 [or Bxf6] Rxg3+ 54.Qxg3 Qh1+
Repetition results from
55.Qh2 Qf3+ 56.Qg3 Qh1+,
so to avoid a draw, White must play, later or now,
The lines now diverge at move 56. for: (1) 53.exf6 or (2) 53.Bxf6.
For (1) 53.exf6, repetition starting from move 56. results from
56.Qf4 [Kh4 Qf5+ 57.Qg5 hxg5] Qg2+ 57.Qg3 [Kh4 Qg6#] Qe4+,
so White must eventually play
56.Kh3 Qh1+, with repetition of position.
For (2) 53.Bxf6, the main line is the same, but White’s variant 56.Kh4 above spawns a novel variation (the variant 57.Kh4 above still leads to mate, for both (1) 53.exf6 or (2) 53.Bxf6).
56.Kh4 Qf5+ 57.Bg5 Qg6+ 58.Kg4 59.Qf5+ Kh4 60.Qg6+, a repetition not present in (1) 53.exf6.
It's nice if you can make a theorem out of a puzzle, but I will check <UdayanOwen>'s "proof" for tips on exposition. I am glad to see CG is throwing more draws into the mix. The realism does keep you on your toes.
|Mar-13-08|| ||SuperPatzer77: <johnlspouge> You must have made a typo - Kh4. The correct one should be Kh5 - not Kh4 because the White h-pawn is on the h4 square. You've made a typo. I just wanted to correct you on that - Kh4 so, the correct is Kh5. |
Of course, it is a very clear draw by repetition. Black makes a brilliant bishop sacrifice that leads to the perpetual checks by the Black Queen.
|Mar-13-08|| ||soberknight: Bah, I completely missed it.|
|Mar-13-08|| ||johnlspouge: <<SuperPatzer77> wrote: <johnlspouge> You must have made a typo - Kh4. [snip] Kh4 so, the correct is Kh5>|
<SuperPatzer77>, you are correct, and I appreciate your pointing it out. I have a tendency to mirror 4 <-> 5 in particular, and (a, b, c, d) <-> (h, g, f, e). I <am> mirroring less as I post more, but I obviously have some distance to go...
Thanks very much.
|Mar-13-08|| ||xrt999: funny, after 33.Rc2, offering the rook trade, and 45.Qg3, offering the queen trade, I would say that white is playing for a draw as well. Superficially, white seems to have the superior position; white has the active bishop on open files, black has the same color opposing "bad" bishop stuck on g7, white is up a pawn, yet white is content to played subdued.|
I saw this tendency for white to draw in an instant; prior to the light of my PC monitor hitting my retina, the ethereal whisps of the intention of light began to form in the 14 inches from the monitor to my eyes. In that dense and hazy eon of time, the nerve impulses began to fire, interpreting the hazy pre-light images in the deepest depths of my ancestral primitve mind, instituting my hands to reach for the keys to begin typing the solution.
So, to answer your question, relative to the speed of light, my instant is faster.
|Mar-14-08|| ||SuperPatzer77: <johnlspouge:> <<SuperPatzer77> wrote: <johnlspouge> You must have made a typo - Kh4. [snip] Kh4 so, the correct is Kh5> |
LOL - You made me laugh aloud. No problem. I know you're awfully human after all. I admit that I'm sometimes goofy. LOL. I admire your analysis, johnlspouge. Well-done, dude!
|Mar-14-08|| ||johnlspouge: <<SuperPatzer77> wrote: LOL - You made me laugh aloud. No problem. I know you're awfully human after all. I admit that I'm sometimes goofy.>|
I once had a girlfriend who pointed out that I had "nice human qualities, too". (Ouch!) Thanks for pulling my leg ever so gently...
< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 2 OF 2 ·