< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 2 OF 2 ·
|Jul-16-13|| ||Nick46: <FSR After 20.Qxf8+, Menchik no longer had a knight on f8.>
But he had HAD a knight on f8 -> an ambiguous linguistic problem.|
|Jul-16-13|| ||TheaN: Tuesday 16 July 2013
A clear example of taking out the defender. White attacks both f8 and h7 twice, and either square has two defenders. However, one defender is shared (king), and it is just a matter of saccing on the right square to lure defenders away.
<20.Qxf8+ Rxf8> one defender of h7 is gone.
<21.Bxh7+ Kh8> f8 has lost both defenders.
<22.Rxf8# 1-0> and it all falls into place.
|Jul-16-13|| ||TheaN: <Nick46: <FSR After 20.Qxf8+, Menchik no longer had a knight on f8.> But he had HAD a knight on f8, an ambiguous linguistic problem.>|
An ambigious genderistic problem, cause I'm pretty sure <s>he had a knight on f8, haha.
|Jul-16-13|| ||mistreaver: Tuesday. White to play. Easy. 20?
Wow, i spent really too much time on this one:
20 Qxf8 Rxf8
21 Bxh7+ Kh8
22 Rxf8 mate
|Jul-16-13|| ||Nick46: <TheaN An ambigious genderistic problem, cause I'm pretty sure <s>he had a knight on f8, haha.>
Gotme - In Vino Veratas|
|Jul-16-13|| ||gofer: What is the defense after 19 Qf3? I see none!
19 ... Be8/Nd8 20 Qxf8#
19 ... Ne7 20 Qf7+ Kh8 21 Qxf8+ Rxf8 22 Rxf8 Ng8 23 Nf7#
19 ... Ng6 20 Bxg6 hxg6 21 Qh3 and mating with Qh7#
19 ... Qxd3 20 Qf7+ Kh8 21 Qxf8+ Rxf8 22 Rxf8#
19 ... Qc5 20 Bxh7+ Nxh7 (Kh8 21 Nf7+ Kxh7 22 Qh5+ Kg8 23 Qh8#)
21 Qf7+ Kh8 22 Qh5 mating
<notyetagm>: So 19 Qf3 is not a "trap".
Its is the start of a forced mate.
|Jul-16-13|| ||TheaN: <gofer> am I missing something terribly easy after 19....g6? It's undisputed the most fugly defense in black's arsenal, but I see no forced mate after 20.Qf7+ Kh8.|
White can probably play 21.Bxg6 hxg6 (not capturing allows 22.Qf6+ with 23.Bf7#) 22.Rad1 Qxe5 23.Rf3 Qxg5 24.Rh3+ Qh5 25.Rxh5+ gxh5 26.Qxh5+ looks strong but definitely not forced mate.
|Jul-16-13|| ||TheaN: Oh I am actually forgetting 21....Qxe5 as defense, so it seems 21.Bxg6 is not the way to go after 19....g6 20.Qf7+. Not so clear what to do then.|
|Jul-16-13|| ||whiteshark: <20.Qxf8+>, and that's it!|
|Jul-16-13|| ||FSR: <gofer> You're right: 19.Qf3! is murderous. As for <TheaN>'s fugly 19...g6, 20.Qf7+ Kh8 21.Qf6+ Kg8 22.Nf7! threatens both 23.Qh8# and 23.Nh6#.|
|Jul-16-13|| ||Abdel Irada: <FSR: <Phony Benoni: Bent Larsen once said, no doubt jokingly, "With a knight on f8 you never get mated."|
No joke here.>
After 20.Qxf8+, Menchik no longer had a knight on f8.>
That's why it's "no joke": Minus the knight, she was mated.
|Jul-16-13|| ||TheaN: <FSR> ah yes. Completely disregarded the knight's power from f7. Atypical placement, missed the Nh6 follow up... that definitely decides.|
|Jul-16-13|| ||zb2cr: You have to make the right moves in the right order here. |
20. Qxf8+, Rxf8. Now the Black Knight has been eliminated and the Rook drawn to f8.
21. Bxh7+, Kh8. Now the King has been driven away from being able to protec the Rook.
22. Rxf8#. Now the last protector of the weak back rank is eliminated by the White Rook as it gives checkmate,
|Jul-16-13|| ||Marmot PFL: Rudy loved to sacrifice.|
|Jul-16-13|| ||YetAnotherAmateur: Took me a little while to get the ordering right, but this does the trick:|
20. Qxf8+ Rxf8 (forced)
21. Bxh7+ Kh8 (forced)
Some things that are no good at all are an immediate Bxh7+ or Qf7+.
|Jul-16-13|| ||chrisowen: Hoofed over sat up free foot a foilable 20.Qxf8+,
honored d3 doesnt work on account f8 nick hem and black hasten horse to rebut advance maya queen flop belly up a wave crested f8 at he door harvest d3,
comes later a path to redeem versus cone 20...Rxf8,
21.Bxh7+s cadence ko use your noodles look fig sun he,
drench it ok a 21...Kh8 22.Rxf8#
|Jul-16-13|| ||kevin86: Mate in three:
1 Queen sac,removing the pesky knight.
2 Bishop takes,forcing the king away from the rook
|Jul-16-13|| ||perfidious: <Nick46: <FSR After 20.Qxf8+, Menchik no longer had a knight on f8.> But he had HAD a knight on f8 - an ambiguous linguistic problem.>|
The demise of that knight was brought about in a fashion which was not at all ambiguous, in any form.
|Jul-16-13|| ||BOSTER: <Marmot PFL :Rudy loved to sacrifice>.
But in this game the person who sacr. first was the great Menchik, playing 13...Rxf4, but not "Last Romantic".|
<PB> < Bent Larsen once said "With a knight on f8 you never get mated".> I don't know about <never>, but if black played 12...Nf8 instead 12...0-0, I'm not sure that Spielmann could find the way to sacr. something.
This is the pos.,and you can evaluate it.
click for larger view
White to play.
|Jul-16-13|| ||ajk68: After 19. Qf3, is there any way to avoid mate?|
|Jul-16-13|| ||Phony Benoni: <ajk88: After 19.Qf3, is there any way to avoid mate?>|
You can't get checkmated by resigning.
Seriously, this has discussed in the kibitzing, and outside of useless measures like 19...Qxa1 it doesn't look likely.
|Jul-16-13|| ||BOSTER: <gofer> What is the defense after 19.Qf3?>.|
I'd better ask why did black play all suspicious combo beginning from 13...Rxf4 and 14....Qxb2 ?
Maybe black forgot that <b2 pawn in French is taboo>, this is much is known.
|Jul-16-13|| ||tbentley: Houdini hasn't found a mate after 19...Qxa1 yet. "Second best" for black is 19...Qc5 which allows mate in 9.|
|Jul-16-13|| ||tbentley: As to the actual puzzle, I immediately looked at 20. Qxf8+ and 20. Bxh7+, but it took me longer than I would like to combine the two.|
|Jul-16-13|| ||Nullifidian: 20. ♕xf8+ ♖xf8 21. ♗xh7+ ♔h8 22. ♖xf8#|
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