< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 3 OF 3 ·
|Aug-21-08|| ||megatacos: Very nice use of the passed pawn, but i was very surprised to see white play 17. RF2 to put his rook under a pin.|
|Aug-21-08|| ||johnlspouge: <<zooter> wrote : oh and btw, have you folks noticed that the applet board doesn't support "under promotion"? Pushing the f8 pawn results in queen directly....chessgames, time to improve the java applet?>|
Hi, <zooter>. Nikolai Pilafov wrote the Deluxe Chess Viewer and can be contacted through http://www.geocities.com/pilafovi/C.... Nikolai is pleasant and very open to hearing people's suggestions, although he is rightfully reticent to "improve" his wonderful applet. He probably <would> want to implement underpromotion, so you should contact him directly.
You can say "hi" from me as well, if you do :)
|Aug-21-08|| ||patzer2: White's 21. Rd1! is an instructive move, not involving a capture or check, which overwhelms the weak Black King position with decisive threats.|
If 21...Nc5, then 22. Rfd2! 0-0 23. Rd4 traps the Black Queen.
If 21...Nxe5, then 22. Qf6! O-O 23. Qxe5 wins a decisive piece with a double attack.
If 21...Bxe4, then White can finish with 22. Nxe4 Qc6 23. Nd6+ Kf8 24. Rxf7+ Kg8 25. Qe7 Qc7 26. Kh1 Qxe5 27. Ne8 Rxe8 28. Qxe8+ Nf8 29. Qxf8#.
So the game continuation with 21...f5 was probably about as strong a try as Tal had to maximize resistance, but his hopes for a swindle were dashed after 24. Bxb7+!
|Aug-21-08|| ||kevin86: I missed the fantastic combination-involving loaning out a queen and rook at shark rates. White,in fact,gains a knight.|
♕ for ♖;♖ for a ♘;then ♙ for ♕ (promotion)
|Aug-21-08|| ||YouRang: I was pretty sure I had a good solution, although not quite the same as the game. |
Black has some difficulties in trying to stop the passed f-pawn AND keeping his pieces safe. I can exploit this situation by putting my queen in the middle of it. Here is what I found:
24.Bxb7+ Kxb7 <removing a potential defender and drawing the black K away from the defense of his knight> 25.Qe7! <pinning and double attacking the knight, plus it forces the rooks to guard each other (in addition to stopping Pf7)> Qc7 <protecting the knight and unpinning it> 26.Rfd2 <piling on the knight and pinning it against the d8 rook>
click for larger view
If black moves the knight, e.g. 26...Nb6, then 27.Qxc7+ Kxc7 28.Rxd8 Rxf7 (28...Rxd8 29.Rxd8 Kxd8 30.f8=Q)
If black tries to guard the knight with the king, such as 26...Kc8, then it amounts to removal of the guard: 27.Rxd7 Rxd7 28.Rxd7 Qxd7 29.Qxf8+
Putting it in the computer, I see it works fine. (In fact, there are a few lines that work fine).
|Aug-21-08|| ||YouRang: Now that I read the posts, I see that I'm, what, about the seventh person to find this line? :-\|
|Aug-21-08|| ||TheaN: 4/4
Once again a puzzle where he have to find the game continuation more or less, as pretty much wins in this position. Nonetheless, I played the most forcing, and thus ingame line, completely till f8=Q.
White: 6P, N, B, 2R, Q
Black: 5P, N, B, 2R, Q
+ / -: + P
<24.Bxb7†!> seemingly trading off, but White plans a lot more. Rejecting with Kc7 just loses a Bishop, seeing the final position of the acceptance it might be better.
<24....Kxb7> if Black wants to try something he has to take it. This removes one defender from d8 however, and the second defender is overworked.
<25.Qxd8!> as I've already read above, Qe7, attacking the Knight, wins too, but this is forced. If Black does not capture the Queen he is a Rook down in a worthless position.
<25....Rxd8 26.Rxd7†!> and Black picks up Rook and Knight for the Queen. Now Black can't differ either, as 26....Kc8 27.Rxd8† Kxd8 28.f8=Q just leads to a Rook and Knight down. Black has to recapture.
<26....Rxd7 27.f8=Q > and White regains his Queen, a Knight up. Enough, I'd say, Tal continued without compensation.
|Aug-21-08|| ||TheaN: Oops, forgetting Kc7.
<24....Kc7> maybe better as it trades less material.
<25.Bxa6 > but White cleans up soon enough.
|Aug-21-08|| ||YouRang: <megatacos: Very nice use of the passed pawn, but i was very surprised to see white play 17. RF2 to put his rook under a pin.>|
Yes, a lot of us would probably opt for 17.Kh1 on "positional grounds", not wanting a pinned piece. But, really good players look deeper:
- There were no immediate threats on the rook, nor was the rook responsible for guarding anything, so the pin had little near-term consequences.
- White could probably tell that the pin wouldn't last long anyway. The black Q is easily diverted.
- The rook, although pinned, still threatens f7 (which white employed by playing 19.Qh5, threatening Qxf7+).
- Putting the rook on f2 develops the option for Raf1, doubling his rooks on the open f-file.
- Finally, he might prefer to not tuck his king away in a corner where back-rank vulnerabilites might develop.
So, I think 17.Rf2 probably is the better move.
|Aug-21-08|| ||benveniste: I found 24. ♕e7, threatening ♖xd7, etc. I can't find a refutation. Credit or no credit?|
|Aug-21-08|| ||melv: After pawn promotes to queen you can right click on it and underpromote.|
|Aug-21-08|| ||456: Wednesday puzzle Aug-20-08 <32. ...?> O Sarapu vs Browne, 1972|
|Aug-21-08|| ||johnlspouge: <<melv> wrote: After pawn promotes to queen you can right click on it and underpromote.>|
More precisely, to promote a pawn on the 7-th rank, right-click and select "Pawn promotes into >" and select your choice from the submenu.
Thanks, <melv>. Nikolai did far too good a job to let underpromotion escape his eye.
|Aug-21-08|| ||WarmasterKron: I saw the idea of Qxd8 quickly, and after a little while the ideas of Bxb7 and Rxd7, so just a matter of getting the move order right.|
<TheaN> I might be missing something, but I can't see White having much fun after 24...Kc7 25.Bxa6 Qxh4.
|Aug-21-08|| ||whiteshark: I wonder why I could realize this pattern more easily than some Tuesday/Wednesday puzzles?|
|Aug-21-08|| ||Kings Indian: King's Indian Dad speaking. I got this one verbatim to the pawn conversion. That seemed to give white the big advantage, and I went for the answer. I wonder, in solving these long puzzles, how far do we have to take the game?|
|Aug-21-08|| ||jaydes: Kings Indian : If you're a silicon monster, I suppose calculating till mate in 100 makes sense. If you're flesh & blood like the rest of us, I suppose you stop calculating when you see a combination that wins you a piece with not even a spite check for black. :P|
|Aug-21-08|| ||Kings Indian: Oh wonderful, so I can say I am three for four this week so far. Thanks Jaydes. |
BTW, Kings Indian is my son. I am a watcher, and puzzler.
|Aug-21-08|| ||zooter: <johnlspouge:
Thanks, <melv>. Nikolai did far too good a job to let underpromotion escape his eye..
Almost contacted Nikolai.... :)
|Aug-24-08|| ||Viewer Deluxe: Thanks for your kind words, <johnlspouge>. I couldn’t put this summary any better than you.|
<zooter>, underpromotion has always been there from day one (v 3.0). How would I dare call a chess viewer “Deluxe” without underpromotion? Look on the chessboard context menus and you will easily find it.
|Feb-09-13|| ||Eduardo Bermudez: Pretty good game of Lutikov beating Larsen in his best !!|
|Feb-09-13|| ||perfidious: <Eduardo> Lutikov gave Tal-the other Larsen-a lot of trouble in their encounters.|
|Feb-10-13|| ||ughaibu: Interesting post. 11th Feb 2:32am Japan.|
|Feb-05-15|| ||Eduardo Bermudez: Classical games: Anatoly S Lutikov beat Mikhail Tal 5 to 2, with 8 draws.|
|Mar-08-17|| ||ICCM Bart Gibbons: 21 Qf4 also seems very strong, attacking f7 and b7. If 24...0-0-0 25 Bb7+ Kb7 26 Ne4 wins at least a pawn.|
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