Jul-14-04
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| biglo: A game illustrating that h3 to break a potential pin can be a weak move when the white king is castled 0-0 |
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| Jan-16-05 |
| chriseah: There is no forced mate in this game! Von Scheve could have fought on for some time. 18. Bxf7+!
If the king takes the bishop, there is a forced draw. If the king simply moves, then: 19. Bf4 Qxf4 (Qh3+ is met with Bh2)
20. Bh5! |
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| Jul-16-05 |
| sharpnova: i was reading through irving chernev's book.. and in the first chapter he uses this game as an illustration of removing the kings defenders with a piece sacrifice. i'd say he gives too much credit to black's position. i saw Bxf7+ too. glad i'm not the only one thinking there are plenty of resources for white |
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| Aug-14-05 |
| NotABanker: White's position goes downhill after 10.dxe5. This turns Black's Bishop at a7 into a monster. |
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| Jan-20-06 |
| Kriegspiel: <chriseah> In Master level games, when a player is forced to choose between a forced mate and massive loss of material, resignation is common. I don't have Chernev's book in front of me (have you read it?) so I can't relate his comments, but looking at the game here in the database and at your comments I see: 19.Bf4 Qh3+ 20.Bh2 Ne3 (forking White's rook and queen). Now if White moves the queen, say 21.Qd2 then 21...Qg2#. No doubt there are other lines, all leading to similar predicaments. As an aside, I've seen a lot of really bad criticisms of Chernev from others at this database, of a nature which suggests that they either haven't read his book and are mindlessly parroting fashionable criticism of him, or else that they are acting in bad faith. And that, too, raises the issue of why such criticism is fashionable. The book in question is one of the best on the market. Very easy to follow, for beginners, not because it is simple-minded but because it is so well written. It has some weak points, but so do its competitors. Kriegspiel
:p |
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| Jan-20-06 |
| Kriegspiel: P.S. Chernev, as I recall, explains the lines leading to a resignation at the end of each game where actual mate does not occur. Kriegspiel
:p |
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| Jun-07-06 |
| J.A. Topfke: I was just playing through the game in Chernev’s book when I noticed the line already mentioned 18.Bxf7+!. After 18…Kf8 (18…Kxf7 leads to a forced draw as previously pointed out) 19.Bf4 Qxf4 20.Bh5! (cited above) it does appear to me that White can keep fighting. If, in this line, 19…Qh3+?, the best move however is 20.Nh2, with a double attack on the knight on g4, instead of 20.Bh2, though even 20.Bh2 holds. A) 20.Bh2 Ne3 the only reply is 21.Rxf2! and then 21…Nxd1 22.Rxd1 with three minor pieces for the queen and White has the initiative, for instance Junior’s line 22…Ke7 23.e5!. B) 20.Nh2!
B1) 20…g5 21.Bxd6+! cxd6 22.Qxg4 Qxg4 23.Nxg4 Kxf7 24.Rxf2+  B2) 20…Kxf7 21.Qxg4 Qxg4 22.Nxg4 Ba7 23.Bxd6+
B3) 20…Nxh2 21.Bxh2 Kxf7 22.Rxf2+
Another example of a premature resignation. |
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| Mar-06-07 |
| ToTheKings: "Kriegspiel: <chriseah> In Master level games, when a player is forced to choose between a forced mate and massive loss of material, resignation is common." This game contains neither.
"Kriegspiel: I don't have Chernev's book in front of me (have you read it?)" The comments above yours (have you read them?) as well as a very deep analysis by Fritz show that this position is drawn by a very clever combination beginning with Bxf7+. The analysis in Chernev's excellent book is flawed, big deal. Theres always going to be someone picking on past masters for missing something subtle, but it is still there. Please don't troll and be rude to people without reading their comments first. |
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| Mar-26-07 |
| patzer77: Could you guys please explain how 18…Kxf7 leads to a forced draw? |
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Mar-26-07
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| WannaBe: <patzer77> If 18...Kxf7 is played, you get  click for larger viewThen 19. Qd5+ and perpetual. |
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| Mar-30-07 |
| patzer77: Wannabe, perpetual no matter where black king goes? |
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Mar-30-07
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| WannaBe: <patzer77> after Qd5+, black's king have 5 possible squares, g8 and e6 are out, as possible squares. if Kf6, that's a mate in 4, if Kg6, that's a mate in 1. Only other 3 options are Kf8, Ke8, and Ke7, and they are all draws. =) |
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| Apr-02-07 |
| patzer77: Thanks Wannabe |
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