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Bo Nyren vs Mark Taimanov
Liverpool (1952), Liverpool ENG, rd 5, Apr-??
Sicilian Defense: Smith-Morra Gambit. Accepted Scheveningen Formation (B21)  ·  0-1
ANALYSIS [x]

FEN COPIED

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Kibitzer's Corner
< Earlier Kibitzing  · PAGE 3 OF 3 ·  Later Kibitzing>
Mar-14-06  EmperorAtahualpa: I found the right solution, but it took me embarassingly long to find it. I think 4 minutes or more! :(
Mar-14-06  drnooo: easy two move solution, though at first glance the white pieces seem overwhelming: before looking to see who was on the move I assumed it was not black and fooled around with some white moves. In the game White must have thought he had it made.
Mar-14-06  Cogano: I'm so happy I got this one. There are very few puzzles I get. So any puzzle I get is a great accomplishment for me. Take care all & have a great day. Cheers! :)
Mar-14-06
Premium Chessgames Member
  al wazir: Maybe someone has already pointed this out, but it's worth noting that Taimanov's move only wins a ♕ in exchange for a ♖ after 27. Rxg5 fxg5, or else in exchange for a ♘ and a ♙ after 24...Ra1+ 25. Kf2 Nd3+ 26. Rxd3 (instead of Ke3) Qxf4 27. Nxb5. That's why it isn't any better than 24...Nd3, which wins a ♖ outright.
Mar-14-06
Premium Chessgames Member
  al wazir: <patzer2: in the game continuation, Black wins the exchange for an easy win.> I must be stupid. How do you conclude that black only wins the exchange? (See my posts.)
Mar-14-06  RandomVisitor: <al wazir>looks like patzer2 missed 27...fxg5 and thought that black had only 27...Ne6 (after 27.Rxg5), forking the 2 white rooks and therefore winning only the exchange.
Mar-14-06
Premium Chessgames Member
  kevin86: <al wazir> I like the dog!
Mar-14-06
Premium Chessgames Member
  Gypsy: <Gregor Samsa Mendel: I think 24...Nd3 25 g3 allows white to play on "only" an exchange down.> 24...Nd3 25.g3 Ra1+ (a deadly intermezzo) 26.Kg2 Nxf4+ 27.Rxf4 Qxd5 ...0:1
Mar-14-06  alexandrovm: Ra1+, if he black covers with the rook he loses the queen, so Kf2, black can play Nd3+. If the rook takes, once again loses the queen, if the king moves to e2 (the only other legal move) follows NxQ+. He also loses the queen. Chau queen, that's my analysis here
Mar-14-06  Confuse: boooooooooo i thought it was the N to block the rooks... but the other way worked too. i win! my solution works! the end. pout. : )
Mar-14-06  Monoceros: <drnooo: In the game White must have thought he had it made.>

Heh, yeah. I can almost hear Nyren chuckling to himself as he plays his little tactical tricks along the d file. But where was the decisive mistake? (Don't say 4. c3!)

Mar-14-06  fred lennox: 22.a5 looks better. I learn not to exchange pawns without considering how it could give life to an enemy rook.
Mar-14-06
Premium Chessgames Member
  OhioChessFan: <22.a5 looks better. I learn not to exchange pawns without considering how it could give life to an enemy rook.>

<FredLennox> even b3 would seem better than the game move. R1d4 is also bad. White gives up the back rank simply to exchange Queens?

Mar-14-06  scottnewhouse: <Isle of Pawn>An excellent point.
Mar-14-06
Premium Chessgames Member
  YouRang: <belka: I'm learning that tactical solutions don't just have good moves, they also have *forcing* moves. Nd3 is good but not as forcing as Ra1+. >

Nd3 may not be AS forcing as Ra1+, but it is still quite forcing, as it attacks the queen and threatens mate! White has no counter attack, he is 'forced' to prevent mate by either taking the knight or moving h4 -- either way, he ends up a rook down.

Mar-14-06  scottnewhouse: <Belka>You also have an excellent point. I agree with what you are saying. The simplest and most straightforward solution is the best. I would suggest that neither answer is wrong (24...Ra1+ or 24...Nd3) but 24...Ra1+ is better because it is simpler.
Mar-14-06  Skylark: Does it matter which method is chosen? Both ways lead to at least the win of a whole rook, and so both are correct. There's no need to bicker about which move was "better". Both would have lost for white.

I personally found 24. ... Ra1+ quickly, but it really isn't better or worse than 24. ... Nd3.

Mar-14-06  Boomie: 23. R1d4 is useless. After 23...Ra8 the rook should return to d1. White has a slight advantage after 23. b4 Rb6 24. Nf5 g6 25. Nd6 Ra6 26. Rxb5 Rxd6 27. Rxd6 Nxf3+ 28. Qxf3 Qxb5 29. Qxf4.
Mar-14-06
Premium Chessgames Member
  al wazir: <e4Newman>: Yes, they're in (reverse) chonological order. Yesterday's was K Cottrell vs A Lenderman, 2006 .
Mar-14-06  Dudley: <belka> Your explanation of what these puzzles are all about is exactly what I was trying to convey: <It's not just whether or not the non-forcing solution wins. It's that a non-forcing solution is harder to compute, and therefore more error prone> Exactly! Just because some of these puzzles have more than one way to win doesn't mean that all those 2nd rate answers are correct. Sloppy thinking costs you dearly in chess, and there will be many situations where there is only one way to win in a complex tactical situation. You must seek the maximum, cleanest advantage to play accurately.
Mar-14-06  RandomVisitor: chessgames has this to say about these puzzles:

What kind of move am I looking for?

The goal is to find the best move, or sequence of moves, in the given position.

You do not always have to find a checkmate! Just find the best move.

Usually, this move will lead to a superior position, either by a forced sequence of moves which leads to checkmate, or (more commonly) wins substantial material.

By "substantial material" we mean usually winning at least the exchange. More commonly the winning move will net a whole piece (bishop/knight/rook) and sometimes will win the queen. Occasionally, the material will be only a single pawn--this usually happens in endgame situations where the extra pawn will likely decide the game.

The first move is not always the most difficult move to see. Sometimes, the initial move in the sequence is somewhat obvious, but the real solution to the position lies in the follow-up moves. In order to solve our puzzles, you must see enough moves to demonstrate that the initial move is correct. Simply guessing the first move, without understanding why it works, is not solving the puzzle.

Sometimes we will present a position where the player who is to move is in a nearly hopeless situation. In these positions you are expected to look for a way to draw the game instead of win it. We don't tell you that you are looking for a draw; you are expected to figure this out by the nature of the position.

Finally, we occasionally show a puzzle that we call a spoiler. These are positions where there is no move that clearly wins the game, but instead a variety of solid moves which are all playable. Usually these positions present the lure of a sacrifice which is unsound. You are expected to recognize the unsoundness of the tempting sacrifice and instead conclude that the best move is one of the "quiet" moves. We show spoilers from time to time because it encourages people to think combinations all the way through, instead of simply finding a move which looks like it initiates an attack, without considering the defenses.

Mar-15-06  belka: <YouRang: Nd3 may not be AS forcing as Ra1+, but it is still quite forcing, as it attacks the queen and threatens mate! >

I agree with you, with the caveat that Nd3 is a forcing move but not a forced variation. That's exactly the difference I was exploring.

My point is more about habit than correctness. I grant you that Nd3 has a very small tree, and you can compute all the lines easily. Nevertheless, it's a good habit to play a move like Ra1 instead. You can't get bit by a zwischenzug when you give check, and it's much harder to overlook a reply. I furthermore believe that exploring forced moves by habit is important to improve your tactical vision, and makes your solutions are easier to construct.

Both solutions are correct, but I feel that Ra1, with check, forcing Kf2, is just easier to compute, and I feel more confident in its correctness. I can use less time and less energy to make that move. For me, it's the more practical and efficient choice.

Mar-15-06
Premium Chessgames Member
  YouRang: <belka> I don't think we have any disagreement. :)
Apr-03-06
Premium Chessgames Member
  patzer2: <al wazir> Thanks for the correction. After 27. Rxg5 fxg5 Black is of course up an entire Rook, which is much better than a mere exchange.
Sep-12-07  gambitfan: 8... a6!! is a very good move..see the game http://www.playchess.de/games/HCL-T...

After 8 Bf4 I played 8... Be7 ? and I lost the game...

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