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Later Kibitzing > |
| Sep-19-08 |
| TrueBlue: well, Bxe5 was obvious for me to see and how it wins material and the game. Last time I checked, I was a human and I didn't even consider Rxd7 (complicates the game unnecessary). My point is that to say that one move is easier to see than another for human is a wrong statement because it all depends on who is the human. |
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Sep-19-08
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| stardust762: This one was amazing! |
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Sep-19-08
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| stardust762: 23.Bxe5 may be the stronger move, but both moves wins and 23.Rxd7 is more beautiful. I agree with Susan Polgar: "win with grace, lose with dignity" |
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Sep-19-08
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| JG27Pyth: A bit of a calculation test here... I didn't pass... I examined the correct move, but couldn't calculate it deeply enough to see that it wins cleanly. Bxe5 would have been my choice -- a good move... but I know missed some key points in Bxe5 line... I hate finding out that the move I played was a good move but for reasons I didn't actually appreciate when making it! |
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Sep-19-08
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| patzer2: White's 13. Nd2! begins an instructive combination. Material is even at the end of the forcing exchange, but White probably has a decisive advantage in development after the forcing exchange that immediately follows (i.e. 13.
Nd2! Bc4+ 14. Bxc4 dxc4 15. Nb5!  ). |
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Sep-19-08
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| JG27Pyth: <I agree with Susan Polgar: "win with grace, lose with dignity"> ... but take the draw against the higher-rateds. |
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Sep-19-08
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| patzer2: Black's troubles begin with the greedy 11...Bc2?, which makes the mistake of going pawn grabbing before completing development. Instead, 11...a6 12. Bxc6 bxc6 13. Rhc1 f6 = gives Black decent chances. |
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Sep-19-08
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| YouRang: We have a nice rook battery on the 7th rank in line with 2 black pieces and the king. It will spring to life once we move the knight between them, so it's a matter of finding the right moment to do that. Here's what I came up with: 23.Bxe5 <remove defender of knight> fxe5 <clearly not 23...Nxe5 24.Nd5+ & 26.Rxe7+ ; however now our d4-knight is in danger> 24.Nc6 <forking the rook and bishop (which will come under double attack once we play Rxe7), and it also hits d8, preventing the black rook from going there to defend the knight> Rbc8 <take rook out of attack and threaten our rook, at least I didn't anything much better> 25.Rxd7 <picking up knight and threatening Rxd7+> Rxc6 <only move to get piece back and remove threat> 26.Nd8+! <a good time to move that knight! We fork the K+R and open the rook battery to kill the pinned e7 bishop> Rxd8 <minimize the damage> 27.Rxd8 <wins exchange; bishop cannot recapture since it's pinned> Kf6 <break pin; not 27...Ke6 28.Re8 winning bishop> 28.Rxd5 <and now white is up the exchange plus a pawn; should be easily winning> It may not be the fastest way to win, but I'm pretty sure it's clearly winning. :-) |
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| Sep-19-08 |
| Woody Wood Pusher: I went for 23.Rxd7, Nxd7 24.Nd6+?!, Bxd6 (24..Kf8? 25.Ne6+,Kg8 26.Rxd7, Bf8 +5.0 eval) 25. Rxd7+, Ke8 (25...Be7? 26. Bxb8, Rxb8 27.Nc6, Rxb2+ 28.Kf3,Rc2 29.Nxe7 + -) 26. Rxd6, Rxb2+ 27.Kf3 with a likely won endgame for white (+2.8 evaluation) The game continuation wins much more cleanly though.
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Sep-19-08
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| chrisowen: Bac on track for white as the hogs tie down the black defence. The unusual five in a row looks good for a combo so he throttles it by 23. Rxd7 Nxd7 Bxb8 rather than 23. Bxe5 which takes longer but is also sus. <An Englishman> Feeding your line it is mating for white with Rg7+? |
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| Sep-19-08 |
| fyad reject: what an awesome combo |
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| Sep-19-08 |
| AniamL: What if 17...e5?
In my very precursory analysis, it involves white sacrificing a bishop to strangle black's king... seems unclear though. What am I missing? |
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| Sep-19-08 |
| AniamL: Never mind, it looks like dxe5 is strong enough. |
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Sep-19-08
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| kevin86: "The Case of the Augmented Seventh"
At move 23 all squares are occupied-only two by pawns. After a comical series of exchanges,white picks off the last piece with a fork. 27... xe7 28  c6+ d6 29 xb8-and wins with the extra pawn and knight. Also,the rank is now CLEAR of pieces in just five moves. |
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Sep-19-08
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| patzer2: <What if 17...e5?> No sacrifice is necessary. After 17...e5 18. dxe5 Ndxe5 19. Nxb7 , White should have just enough to win. |
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| Sep-19-08 |
| MiCrooks: Have to say that it is kind of a bad choice for a puzzle when 5 lines evaluate out to > +3 and at least 15 lines give you > +2!! That's an endurable advantage! I too found the Bxe5 line instead which evaluates essentially equal to Rxd7, though my follow up to Black's best fxe5 was going to be the relatively inferior Nd6 which "only" is > +3. I have to say the final position in the game is quite nice. Pretty clear when you have the only piece left on the board along with an extra outside passed pawn that victory is a sleep walk at that point. |
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Sep-19-08
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| lost in space: Very late today!
I tried to find the most forcing line and an other one, extremly less forcing, but winning. The most forcing one:
23. Rxd7 Nxd7 24. Bxb8 Rxb8 25. Nxd56 Bxd6 26. Rxd7+ Be7 27. Rxe7+ Kxe7 28. Nc6+ und Black can resign The one which is like strangling:
23. Nf5 g6
or Bf8 24. Bxe5 fxe5 25. Rxd7 (also winning is 25. g4 g6 26. Rxd7 ) 25...Ke6 26. Sbd6 ( 26...Bxd6 27. Rxd6 Kxf5 28. Rf7+ Kg4 29. Rxg7+ Kf5 30. g4+ Ke4 31. f3#) Rg8 27. f4 ; 24. Nxe7 Kxe7 25. Bxe5 fxe5 26. Nc5 Kd6 27. Nxd7 Rxb2 28. Kf3 e4+ 29. Kg3 h5 30. Nf6 h4+ 31. Kh3 Rf8 32. Rd7+ Ke5 33. Ng4+ Ke6 34. Kxh4 I fully understand that this can not be called a solution of a puzzle as there are so many ways Black could play differntly. It was just fun to win in a differnt way. I don't think there is away out for Black after 23. Nf5. |
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| Sep-19-08 |
| DarthStapler: I just chose Bxe5 |
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| Sep-19-08 |
| ChaoticVisitor: So, to solve the puzzle, we write what we think in these forums, or are we supposed to be able to move pieces? I'm not sure if I'm having Java or Flash problems, or if we just notate our answers. |
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Sep-19-08
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| dzechiel: <ChaoticVisitor: So, to solve the puzzle, we write what we think in these forums, or are we supposed to be able to move pieces? I'm not sure if I'm having Java or Flash problems, or if we just notate our answers.> Work on solving the problems in whichever way seems best to you. If you care to write about your experience and offer any insights you found, then others may benefit from your efforts. Welcome to Chessgames, I hope you enjoy your time spent here. |
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Sep-19-08
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| gawain: Not "difficult" but certainly entertaining. I love the full 7th rank setup. |
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Sep-19-08
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| johnlspouge: <<PositionalTactician> wrote: [snip] I do not have an engine with me, but in line 2 after 24.Nd6, surely 24...Bxd6 25.Rxd7+ Ke8 26.Rxd6(26.Ne6 Bf8) exd4 is better?> Hi, <PositionalTactician>. Toga confirms 26.Nc6 as the best move in the variation you give. As a practical matter, I do not claim that my variations give best play: my aim is to find and justify the best move, defined as demonstrating at least a clear P advantage in every variation. Other people might have differing aims, of course. Today was unusual in that the 2 leading possibilities are almost equal in value, but there is little doubt that 23.Rxd7 is easier to justify: 23.Rxd7 Nxd7 [else, drop a N] 24.Bxb8 Rxb8 [else, drop a R] 25.Nd6+ Bxd6 [else, 26.Rxd7 wins a piece]
26.Rxd7+ Be7 [else, 26.Rxd7 wins a piece]
27.Rxe7+ 28.Kxe7 [else, drop a piece] 28.Nc6+
White has an extra N.
Compare the above to my justification of 23.Bxe5 :) |
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Sep-19-08
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| TheaN: 4.5/5
Hm. Without any clear analysis, as all is pretty forced and explained in the above posts, I completely missed that after Nxd7, Rb8 was in... I probably spotted the whole combination if I did. I went with <23.Rxd7 Nxd7 24.Nd6†?! Bxd7 (or K anywhere) 25.Rxd7† Kg6 26.Rxd6 Rxb2† 27.Kf3>  but maybe even . Still the text is both easier, more powerful and way too simple. Half point for mixing themes, I presume. |
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| Sep-19-08 |
| Zzyw: Went with BxN, saw a clear win. If that hadn't been so obvious I bet I would have found the winning line after RxN as well. |
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| Sep-19-08 |
| DoubleCheck: The only reason why i think the queens were exchanged on the 8th move was because white must of been mindful of the fact of ...Nb4 ...Nc2+ OR was to open up the a-file for whites rook
Unless someone else has a stronger suggestion? |
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Later Kibitzing > |
