< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 2 OF 2 ·
|Apr-27-07|| ||Richard Taylor: <imatos> If I had plenty of time on my clock - I would probably find this fairly easily OTB - I found the move Rxe5 and most of the useful lines - but OTB I would probably have found Rde1 (I would be very alert - looking at a puzzle I tend to get a bit lazy and sometimes miss defences oTNB I would be more alert I hope and find them (and doing tactics like this helps one's OTB chess atctics I find- but it isn't necessary it is easy to see that White is winning after Rxe8+|
I think I would work out most of the moves OTB - on a good day. I doubt if the winner of this saw all the moves.
That doesn't detract from the combination (or White's attack) it is wonderful, and very imaginative and also instructive game by a very talented player it is clear.
|Apr-27-07|| ||Richard Taylor: I think Black needs to play 11 .... dxe5 12 dxe5 b6 13 Bd3 Bb7 14 Qe4 g6 15 Bh6 Re8 16 Rfe1 Qc7 and so on. Black can play f5 at the right moment.|
|Apr-27-07|| ||goodevans: <MostlyAverageJoe: I think figuring out the first 5 plies qualifies as a solution here.> I'm happy to go with that as it means I can claim a solution today. After missing Wednesday's and Thursday's my confidence needs a lift!|
|Apr-27-07|| ||realbrob: The key thing to spot was White's mate threat on g7, if the Black queen moves. It was also interesting to notice that after 25.Rxe5 Black could play neither 25..Qxe5 nor 25..dxe5 26.Rd7, and White wins. The most difficult thing was finding a complete refutation of 25..Qxa7 26.Rxe8+ Kf7, but after some calculation it came out that 27.Rf8+ wouldn't work, so 27.Rde1 was the best thing to do.|
|Apr-27-07|| ||openningspecialist: < dasp3edd3m0n: 23. Rxd3 work for black? > no 23. ... Rxd3 and after Bxh7 Kxh7. No pertepetual nothing and B on b7 is hanging and cant move.|
I got Rxe5 and all of the Qxa7 line up to and including Rde1. However i missed after Rxe5 Qxe5 that g7 was still controled when looking at the position i saw Re1 which looked natural but saw that the Queen no longer blocked Qg7+ and thought it was mate. I dont think this counts as a correct puzzle but OTB i would have gotten it in any game with a set time of 60/10 assuming i had 20min or greater on my clock. I guess i sometimes get lazy on puzzles.
CG.com i was wondering how many people actually get the daily puzzles. Would a first move survey be a good way of informing people of this. I am unsure of the talent in the field of the dailypuzzlers as some people will use engines and some people will look at the solution and claim they got the solution before kbitzing. Thanks for the daily puzzles. OPS
|Apr-27-07|| ||TrueBlue: saw everything in less than a minute, including few variations, very easy for me, almost like a Monday! (4/5 so far this week - missed yesterday's)|
|Apr-27-07|| ||gawain: Like several others I saw 25 Rxe5 quickly but did not get the follow-up moves.|
|Apr-27-07|| ||zb2cr: I'm with <gawin> on this--I thought 25. Rxe5 led to a promising position for White, but I didn't see all lines through to the end, so I can only claim a tiny bit of credit.|
|Apr-27-07|| ||kevin86: I had the key move and a few that followed,but I didn't go to the end. I guess on a scale of one to ten,I rate about a seven.|
|Apr-27-07|| ||YouRang: I spent a bunch of time looking at the 25. Rxe5 line, but my train of thought stalled at 27.Rde1. |
Truthfully, there's no way that I, at move 25, would have seen far enough ahead to convince myself that this was winning. Great play by Nun. Tough puzzle, IMO.
|Apr-27-07|| ||outplayer: 27.Rf8+?! still wins. As a sicilian player this Alapin variation frequently leads to defeat. I have to study it more as I like 2...Nf6.|
|Apr-27-07|| ||fm avari viraf: It's a great misfortune for Black as he is defenseless after White's Rxe5. All other defensive lines lead to catastrope. The pun "J. Nun plays like J. Nunn."|
|Apr-27-07|| ||the grey sqaures: this one was ez the correct moves just jumps out at u thursdays was alot harder|
|Apr-27-07|| ||Crowaholic: <alshatranji: I calculated up to 29...Kh5, but I had 30. Be2+, which seems to win too. If 30...g4, mate follows: 31. Rf5+ Kh4
32. g3+ Kh3
33. Bf1+ etc.>
32. ..♖xg3+ is possible, delaying for one move, and ♖h5# is quicker than ♗f1+ ..♗g2 ♗xg2#
<If 30. Kh4, there follows a nice sacrifice:
31. Bxg5+ Kxg5
32. f4+ Kh4
I missed that one. Nice observation. One problem with 30. ♗e2+ is that after ..♗f3 31. ♗xf3+ ♔h4, Black has a backrank mating threat, and the aforementioned sacrifice doesn't work because f3 is blocked. Fortunately, there is another nice sacrifice: 32. ♖e4+ g4 33. ♖xg4+ ♔h5 34. ♖h4+!! and either ..♔xh4 35. ♖f4# or ..♔g6 35. ♗e4#. Because of constant check, Black lacks a tempo for ..♖c1+.
By the way: Apparently, I'm not the only one who found this puzzle easier than the Thursday puzzle.
|Apr-27-07|| ||Crowaholic: I played this one out from move 25 on against gnuchess.|
25. ♖xe5 ♕xa7 26.
♖xe8+ ♔f7 27. ♖de1 g5 28. ♖f8+ ♔g6 29. ♖e6+ ♔h5 30. ♖f5 ♕a5 31. ♖xa5 bxa5
32. ♗e2+ ♔h4 33. g3+ ♔h3 34. ♗xg5 ♖f3 35. ♗xf3 ♗xf3 36. ♖f6 ♔g4 37. ♖f4+
♔xg5 38. ♖xf3 d5 39. ♖d3 ♔g6 40. ♖xd5 a4 41. ♖a5 ♔f6 42. ♖xa4 ♔e6 43. ♖d4
♔e5 44. ♖d2 h5 45. a4 ♔f6 46. a5 ♔f7 47. a6 h4 48. g4 ♔f6 49. a7 ♔g5 50. h3
♔g6 51. a8=♕ ♔f7 52. ♕c6 ♔f8 53. ♕c7 ♔e8 54. ♖d8#
Yes, that's a 9 move rook solo. :-) Maybe I missed an earlier mate that doesn't require promotion (or bringing in the king).
|Apr-27-07|| ||Crowaholic: Could have won more quickly with the excellent Zwischenzüge 31. ♗e2+ ♗f3 32. ♗xf3+ ♖xf3 before 33. ♖xa5!|
|Apr-27-07|| ||Crowaholic: I'm sorry for posting four times in a row, but I replayed this line against GNU Chess using the aforementioned Zwischenzüge, and I think the result is quite a bit more thrilling than the previous a-pawn afternoon stroll. Note that the rook is not involved in the final mating position, but in numerous threats on the way.|
25. ♖xe5 ♕xa7 26. ♖xe8+ ♔f7 27. ♖de1 g5 28. ♖f8+ ♔g6 29. ♖e6+ ♔h5 30. ♖f5 ♕a5 31. ♗e2+ ♗f3 32. ♗xf3+ ♖xf3 33. ♖xa5 bxa5 34. gxf3 ♔h4 35. ♗f8 g4 36. f4 g3 37. f3 h5 38. ♔g2 d5 39. ♗e7#
|Apr-27-07|| ||MostlyAverageJoe: <Crowaholic> While your games against GNU may be interesting, they require too much effort for me (and I would guess many others) to appreciate them.|
The representation of the chess pieces with glyphs instead of letters is cute, but useless for copy/paste. If you wrote 25. Rxe5 Qxa7 ... instead of 25. ♖xe5 ♕xa7 ..., it would be much easier to replay the game.
|Apr-27-07|| ||Mendrys: Well I certainly can't say that I saw everything after 25. Rxe5 Qxa7
26. Rxe8+ Kf7 27. Rf8+ wich is not as strong as what was played. But it's winning so I'll give myself partial credit. That means it's probably a tad too easy for a friday but I won't complain. <MostlyAverageJoe> You grade yourself too hard. You should give yourself an 80, just like I did :=) |
The black bishop was a monster on e5 so it was pretty easy to see that he had to go. Truthfully, I feel confident that I could have seen the move in a real game. It's not like I would have stumbled blindly into this position. Of course in a real game I could have just as easily goofed it up and played 25. Qxe7 Rxe7 26. Rxe5? Rxe5 27. Rxd6 missing Bc6 and probably lose.
|Apr-27-07|| ||Skylark: Keep in mind in the game the man sacrificed not an exchange, but a queen. I don't know about any of you claiming that you would have got this easily over the board, but is it really that easy to throw away your queen if you can't see to the end of a long sequence? It looked strong, but if it turns out that black has a defense, then you're a queen down and lost. Now in this position, maybe if you got 27. Red1 which leads to a variation where the king is forced up the board, you may have decided that 25. Rxe5 is best, but I think you need to still step back and appreciate that Mr. Nun had the courage to play this even if he couldn't calculate it out to a strict mate. It may not be as hard as Thursday's in terms of a 'white to play and win' puzzle, but in terms of 'I have 20 minutes left on my clock and a queen sacrifice that I can't calculate out' it might have been a little harder, so give the guy _some_ credit.|
Also I agree with MostlyAverageJoe about the glyphs, especially when you're posting a long continuation like that; I just find them annoying to read in general, however.
|Apr-27-07|| ||BishopPair: anyone try Rxd6 ?|
|Apr-27-07|| ||Werewolf: imatos, I agree with you, though the first move it´s kinda easy to find it´s not the same with the subsequent variants.
Anyway it´s a nice with a great final attack|
|Apr-27-07|| ||MostlyAverageJoe: <imatos: But in a real game, the situation is not, as you say, "downhill," because unlike in a puzzle, you don't know that there exists a sound flashy combination, and any good-looking flashy move can in fact turn out to be a blunder>|
All I can say is that the first 5 plies had a "good feel" to them. I am pretty sure that the white did further calculations.
I still think the game was "downhill". Yes, there is a gazillion of lines. But as I mentioned, apart from move 30, in each position white seems to have one strong move that is relatively easy to see. Black has several choices in most of the moves, all of them losing badly.
<BishopPair: anyone try Rxd6 ?> Simply taking white queen off the board is not that much worse than 25.Rxd6. About one pawn worth, to be exact :-)
|Apr-30-07|| ||Crowaholic: <MostlyAverageJoe: The representation of the chess pieces with glyphs instead of letters is cute, but useless for copy/paste.>|
I actually tested copy & paste from Firefox into a plain-text editor (in this case gvim) on Windows before and it worked fine because the images are replaced by their alt text which is Q, R etc..
But of course there could be browsers or operating systems where it does not work and I didn't (and cannot) test all combinations. So thanks for the criticism, I will stop using the glyphs from now on. At least I'll try.
|Apr-30-07|| ||MostlyAverageJoe: <Crowaholic> You're correct - your line copied via Firefox or Camino works correctly. I should've looked at the HTML source and see that it has an alternative representation.|
My previos criticism is henceforth withdrawn.
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