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Vladimir Kramnik vs Magnus Carlsen
London Chess Classic (2012), London ENG, rd 3, Dec-03
English Opening: Symmetrical Variation. Botvinnik System Reversed (A37)  ·  1/2-1/2
ANALYSIS [x]

FEN COPIED

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Kibitzer's Corner
< Earlier Kibitzing  · PAGE 9 OF 9 ·  Later Kibitzing>
Dec-03-12  Fanques Fair: While I was watching the game I couldnґt see why Kramnik didnґt play 28- Ba3, Qb8 , 29- Rxb6 , Qxb6 30- Qe8+ , Kh7 31- Qxf7, gaining a second extra pawn ... is there some hole in my line ?
Dec-03-12
Premium Chessgames Member
  Sastre: <Fanques Fair> 28.Ba3 Qa8+ 29.f3 Rxb1.
Dec-03-12  Fanques Fair: Also I donґt see how Black can save the game after 52- Bd4 ! ... this bishop makes life unconfortable for Blackґs king and rook, and White threatens Rd6 and Rxg6, which would win another pawn and probably the game. 52... Bf8 , 53- Rf7, Bh6 (..., Rxd4 looks even worse after 54-Rxf8 ,Rd3, 55-Rf4+, Kh3, 56- Re4 or 54-...,Rd2+,55- Ke3,Rg2 , 56 - Rf4+ , Kxg3 , 57 Re4 and advances the e-pawn) 54-Rf6 ! ... if 53-..., Bb4 ! , however, secures the draw ...
Dec-03-12  Fanques Fair: Sastre, I forgot this check .. thanks !
Dec-03-12
Premium Chessgames Member
  Sastre: <Fanques Fair> If 52.Bd4, 52...g5 53.hxg5 Bxg5 followed by 54...h4 should be enough to draw.
Dec-03-12  messachess: These two are about equal strength and about equally consistent. None of the older set seem to be so steady, and the younger are not quite on this level. That leaves C. for the future unless K. gains immortality. We'll see.
Dec-03-12  galdur: Very technical and instructive game. Magnus shows how you can draw with black in this English variation by giving up a pawn - if you have the technique.
Dec-03-12
Premium Chessgames Member
  notyetagm: Kramnik and Carlsen in their own words -> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m6Ds...
Dec-03-12  Atking: Great comments from the champions <notyetagm>. Its seems Kramnik regrets his "too soon and straightfoward" 28.e4. A kind of move I play at first... A lot to learn from this youtube. Thanks.
Dec-03-12  Fanques Fair: Maybe 28- Rc1 was better ... after Qa8 +, 29-f3 , Rb8 28- Rc7 ! , Rf8, Blackґs position seems very difficult ...while after 28..., Rb8, 29- Ba1 White is doubling Queen and rook on the seventh rank, and Black cannot avoid it ...
Dec-03-12  Fanques Fair: I just have seen Kramnik and Carlsen ґs post morten analysis, and they seemingly came to the conclusion that after 28-Rc1, Rxb2 !? , 29- Rc8 , Rxe2 , 29- Rxf8+, Bxf8 is drawish, but I think Iґd prefer to battle with queen against rook and bishop than try to keep an extra pawn weak in d3 ... anyway, it ґs a long way from a win ...
Dec-03-12  Fanques Fair: For example : 31- Qb5 ( threatening d4 attacking the e-pawn and the rook),Re1 32- Qe8, Rd1 , 33- Qd8 , Kg7, 34- Qd5, Re1, 35- Qa5,Re2, 36- Kf3 and Black loses the e-pawn ...
Dec-04-12  Ulhumbrus: 7 a3? spends a tempo in the opening on a pawn move which is probably not really effective and Black can take away White's opening initiative from him by 7...d5!
Dec-04-12
Premium Chessgames Member
  HeMateMe: nice opening by VK, looked like he might have enough to win.
Dec-04-12  BUNA: <Ulhumbrus: 7 a3? spends a tempo in the opening on a pawn move which is probably not really effective and Black can take away White's opening initiative from him by 7...d5!>

And would lose a pawn immediately. ;)

7... d5?!
8. cxd5 Nxd5
9. Nxe5 Nxc3
10.Nxc6 ...

Dec-04-12
Premium Chessgames Member
  notyetagm: <Ulhumbrus: <<<7 a3? spends a tempo in the opening on a pawn move which is probably not really effective>>> and Black can take away White's opening initiative from him by 7...d5!>

No, 7 a2-a3 is not a mistake: it's how you play this opening with White.

The White knight maneuver from f3 to c2, then a2-a3, Ra1-b1, and b2-b4 is the basic idea behind the White set-up.

Do you really think that Kramnik made a mistake on move 7 in one of his main lines??? I believe in Chess Today that Golubev says that the novelty does not occur until around move 20, to be expected.

Dec-04-12  Ulhumbrus: <BUNA: <Ulhumbrus: 7 a3? spends a tempo in the opening on a pawn move which is probably not really effective and Black can take away White's opening initiative from him by 7...d5!> And would lose a pawn immediately. ;)

7... d5?!
8. cxd5 Nxd5
9. Nxe5 Nxc3
10.Nxc6 ...>

Let us take this a little further. 10...Nxd1 11 Nxd8 Nxb2! and Black appears to gain the upper hand instead of White.

<notyetagm: <Ulhumbrus: <<<7 a3? spends a tempo in the opening on a pawn move which is probably not really effective>>> and Black can take away White's opening initiative from him by 7...d5!> No, 7 a2-a3 is not a mistake: it's how you play this opening with White.

The White knight maneuver from f3 to c2, then a2-a3, Ra1-b1, and b2-b4 is the basic idea behind the White set-up.

Do you really think that Kramnik made a mistake on move 7 in one of his main lines??? I believe in Chess Today that Golubev says that the novelty does not occur until around move 20, to be expected.>

Yes, 7 a2-a3 is a mistake which is to say that this way of playing the opening is mistaken.

Yes, I really think that Kramnik made a mistake on move 7 in one of his main lines. However if you show some tiny little mistake which I have made somewhere, I will revise my opinion and will then think that Kramnik did not make a mistake at move 7 in one his main lines. However I do not consider this likely to happen because in the openings section of his manual of chess Emanuel Lasker says < Distrust pawn moves in the opening...this is likely to last unchanged...> I can quote Lasker's entire remark if you like.

Dec-04-12
Premium Chessgames Member
  notyetagm: <Ulhumbrus>

I am not trying to get into a pissing contest with you.

My comment was that your annotation 7 a2-a3? was incorrect because Kramnik is playing down a main line for 20 some odd moves.

Kramnik does not think it is a mistake and I trust a 2800-level player's eval of his openings, especially Kramnik with White.

Dec-04-12
Premium Chessgames Member
  keypusher: <ulhumbrus>

<Let us take this a little further. 10...Nxd1 11 Nxd8 Nxb2! and Black appears to gain the upper hand instead of White.>

12.Nxb7.

Dec-05-12  Ulhumbrus: <notyetagm: <Ulhumbrus>

I am not trying to get into a pissing contest with you.

My comment was that your annotation 7 a2-a3? was incorrect because Kramnik is playing down a main line for 20 some odd moves.

Kramnik does not think it is a mistake and I trust a 2800-level player's eval of his openings, especially Kramnik with White.>

I am sure that I am not trying to start a <pissing contest> whatever that may mean. I for my part will trust presently Emanuel Lasker's comments. Main lines can be wrong.

Dec-07-12
Premium Chessgames Member
  keypusher: <ulhumbrus>

Your 7....d5 loses a pawn.

Dec-14-12  Fanques Fair: Ulhumbrus, I think you have a point here. 7... d5 , 8- cxd5, Nxd5, 9- Nxe5 , Nxc3 , 10- Nxc6 , Nxd1 , 11- Nxd8 , Nxb2, 12-Rb1 , Kxd8! , 13- Bxb2 , Bxb2 , 14- Rxb2 and it seems a rather drawish ending.
Dec-14-12  Fanques Fair:


click for larger view

Dec-14-12  Fanques Fair: But I think Kramnik missed a greater chance in this game : 28- Rc1 ! , Rxb2, 29- Rc8 , Rxd2 , 30- Rxf8+ , Bxf8 . That is, White has a Queen for Rook and bishop, and in this kind of open position, the advantage of Queen is greater than what we could expect. 31- Qb5, Re1 , 32-Qe8 ! , Rd1 , 33- Qd8, Kg7, 34- Qd5, Re1, 35- Qa5 !, Re2,36- Kf3 , winning the e-pawn. I donґt see how can Black avoid this line, as in every move Whiteґs Queen threatens something and Black hasn't got many alternatives. See diagram above
Dec-16-12  jvasea1990: A37: Английское начало против ...g6: 4 ♗g2 ♗g7 5 ♘f3 1. Nf3 c5 2. c4 Nc6 3.Nc3 e5 4. g3 g6 5. Bg2 (5. d3 d6) 5... Bg7 (5... Nf6 6. Ng5) 6. O-O (6.d3 Nf64) 6... Nge7 (6... Nf6 7. d3)
7. a3 Подкрепляя b4 (7. d3 O-O ) 7... a5 (7... O-O 8. d3) 8. Ne1 (8. d3 O-O) 8... d6
9. Nc2 (9. d3 O-O)
9... O-O 10. d3
Rb8 (10... a4 11. Ne3) 11. Rb1 Be6
12. b4 (12. Bg5 Qd7)
12... axb4 (12... cxb4 13. axb4 b6 14. Ba3)
13. axb4
cxb4 (13...b6 14. b5 Nd4 15. Bg5)
14. Nxb4 Nxb4 15. Rxb4 d5 16. cxd5 Nxd5 17. Nxd5
Bxd5 18. Rb5
Bxg2 (18... Bc6 19. Bxc6 bxc6 20. Rxb8 Qxb8 21. Qc2) 19. Kxg2 снижает безопасность короля белых
Qd7 грозит: ♕d7xb5 (19... Qc7 20. e4)
20. Qb3 Rfc8 21. Bb2 грозит: ♗b2xe5
Qd6 (21... Qc6+ 22. e4)
22. Rb1 (22.f3 Rc7)
22... Rc5 (22... b6 23. Ra1)
23. Rb6 Rc6 24. Rxb7 Rxb7 25. Qxb7
Rb6 26. Qc8+ Qf8 27. Qd7
h5 (27... h6 28. Rc1 Rxb2 29. Rc8 Rxe2 30. Rxf8+ Bxf8 31. h4) 28. e4 (28. Rc1 Rxb2 29. Rc8 Rxe2 30. Rxf8+ Bxf8)
28... Qd6
29.Qe8+ (29. Qxd6 $5 Rxd6 30. Rd1)
29... Qf8 30. Qd7 Qd6 31. Qxd6 Rxd6 32.Rd1 f5
33. f3 (33. Kf3 Kf7)
33... fxe4 (33... Kf7 34. Kf2)
34. fxe4 Rb6 35. Bc3
Rb3 грозит: ♖b3xc3 (35... Rc6 36. Bd2) 36. Ba1 (36. Rc1 Bh6 37.Rc2 Kf7 ) 36... Kf7 37. Kf3 Ke6 38. h3 Bh6 39. Ke2 Bg5 40. Rg1 Bh6 41. h4 Kd6 42. Rd1 Ke6 43. Rf1 Rb4 44. Rd1 (44. Rf3 Bg7 ) 44... Rb3 45. Rg1 двойное повторение Kf6 (45... Kd6 46. g4 Bf4 47. gxh5 gxh5 48. Rg6+ Kd7 49.Ra6 ) 46. Rh1 Ke6 47. Rd1 Kf6 48. d4 (48. Rg1 Rb4 $14) 48... Re3+ 49.Kf2 Rxe4 50. dxe5+ (50. d5 Ra4)
50... Kf5 51. Rd7 Kg4 52. Rd6 Белые могут гордиться этой фигурой, Be3+ 53. Ke2 Bf4+ (Слабее, 53... Kxg3 54. Rxg6+ Kxh4 55. Kf3)
54. Kd3 грозит: ♔d3xe4 Re3+ 55. Kc4 Bxe5 56. Rxg6+ Kf3 57. Bxe5 Rxe5 переход в ладейный эндшпиль 58. Rg5 грозит: ♖g5xe5. Классический форпост, Re4+ 59. Kd5 Rg4 грозит: ♖g4xg3 60. Ke5 Kxg3 61. Rxh5 Rxh4 62. Rxh4 Kxh4 1/2-1/2
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