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Magnus Carlsen vs Vassily Ivanchuk
World Championship Candidates (2013), London ENG, rd 12, Mar-29
Sicilian Defense: Paulsen. Bastrikov Variation English Attack (B48)  ·  0-1


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Kibitzer's Corner
< Earlier Kibitzing  · PAGE 36 OF 36 ·  Later Kibitzing>
Premium Chessgames Member
  Richard Taylor: < solskytz: <Richard Taylor>

An amazing story - the first time I ever hear about somebody getting to know chess that way.

I have the poem memorized in Hebrew, as it is beautifully translated. Some other quotes from that book are striking in every sense.>

Thanks. I still have the book, illustrated by Tenniel. I was fascinated by the way the Queens moved at great speed and got nowhere and so on. I have Blog entry on that. I'll giver link some other time.

<Eyal> I looked at the Scott version, I do know a little German from reading poems with German beside the English etc and it does look good but I am no expert. It would be a challenge to translate.


Premium Chessgames Member
  drleper: <csmath: Of course there were chances later as I wrote here in my posts. Read them.>

Yes, those posts came as I was writing. Still, your post overstated the case quite a bit: "Opening knowledge plus talent beats ignorance plus talent", or you "cannot play stuff you have little or no knowledge of" (evidently you can after 18...a5?). They just doesn't make sense in the context of the game, regardless of what was said later on. Anyway, take care.

Apr-01-13  QueentakesKing: Atta boy chucky! Your play< smells like teen spirit>. While that of Mag`s was as <cold as ice>.
Apr-01-13  solskytz: <Tiggler> You're right!

I don't consider myself especially good in translating poetry - although I never tried with gibberish.

The Hebrew translation (the latest one) is exquisite!

It conveys the mood and the meter, and all of the connotations, double-entendres and undercurrents of the original poem. Intensely enjoyable!

Apr-01-13  solskytz: <Richard Taylor> I'd love to see that link - and interesting discussion about 'nonsense'. Of course the poem is profoundly meaningful - and is expressly written as a parody on heroic lore from the middle-ages - in a way that most poems, and some of the characters in the Alice books are parodies, generally on nursery rhymes.

The poem is far from nonsensical - it's just that it uses many words that don't really exist in the language.

This is the touch of the master - how to write a meaningful poem (even if the sense is rather simple to glean) using a vocabulary half of which doesn't exist.

Apr-01-13  RookFile: I think that if Carlsen had to do it all over again, he plays 7. Be2 and 8.0-0 next time.
Premium Chessgames Member
  Richard Taylor: <solskytz: <Richard Taylor> I'd love to see that link - and interesting discussion about 'nonsense'. Of course the poem is profoundly meaningful - and is expressly written as a parody on heroic lore from the middle-ages - in a way that most poems, and some of the characters in the Alice books are parodies, generally on nursery rhymes.

The poem is far from nonsensical - it's just that it uses many words that don't really exist in the language.

This is the touch of the master - how to write a meaningful poem (even if the sense is rather simple to glean) using a vocabulary half of which doesn't exist.>

I think it is not only parody (I hadn't really thought of that, but I suppose it is, the Tenniel knight looks like a kind of Don Quixote). When I read Carroll I was about 10 or so so that would have passed over me.

Lear has some great examples of superb "nonsense". A book I have had for some years called 'The Theatre of the Absurd' goes into this question. Also the US Language poets (Bernstein,Heijinian,Bruce Andrews, Hannah Weiner) and others.

My latest Blog entry on Eyelight has the words the guy typed in The Shining repeated across the screen*...but I have also invented what I believe is the world's first YouTube poem. The idea is to get one or all of the YouTubes (on may subjects and with various sounds and effects) so that the "reader" can play all or some or whatever. So I have a docu about some US factory, music by Bach, some folk music,some contemporary, someone talking about Accountancy, a Chemistry lecture, John Cage talking etc (But some may have "decayed" but that is part of the deal. And there is much else as I have various strands or themes that are either separate or more or less stand alone. I sometimes even reference chess!

There is also "The Interview with The Richard Taylors" which was published in a modified form in a journal called Brief. There various persona of "me" argue with each other in kind of (who was that (German born) musician comedian? People like him..)

Also it is worth recalling that Shakespeare made up or used words that are now commonly used, that he had no dictionary and spelt his own name in different ways. We have to be wary of the imposition of what Charles Bernstein calls "official word culture"...!

Oh, and there is also Kenneth Goldsmith of 'Ubu Web' who writes uncreative literature!

I'll have to find the specific link to the post I did.

*"All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy."

Premium Chessgames Member
  Richard Taylor: Here's the link:

Premium Chessgames Member
  perfidious: <Mr. Bojangles:.....Had it been another opening, any opening, the result would have been different.>

This comment is utterly risible; Ivanchuk is far too capable and experienced a GM to be dismissed in this way, despite his uneven form, as evidenced by this tournament, with all its vicissitudes.

While having great respect for Carlsen's qualities as a player, it is abundantly clear to me that five wins in fourteen games do not constitute evidence that he can win 'on demand' against anyone in this field.

Premium Chessgames Member
  keypusher: <Hesam7 ....from the comfort of the kibitz zone one sees many things the players in the heat of the game might not....>

Or, as they put it in the old days,

<We have now arrived at a small series of those "blunders" which are to a great extent inseparable from the kind of chess which produces splendid position in the most arduous conditions, but which are so easy to anathematize in the purlieus of the Strand!>

Chigorin vs Lasker, 1896

Premium Chessgames Member
  perfidious: <keypusher '....anathematize in the purlieus of the Strand!'>


Apr-02-13  solskytz: <Richard Taylor - on The Shining>

Yes - I remember that quote, and also the film - it created a big impression on me when I saw it in 1988, and I still remember that night and the circumstances - like it was yesterday (it was August the 13th btw)

Premium Chessgames Member
  Richard Taylor: <solskytz> I didn't see it then but a friend was impressed by that moment in the film. So I wanted to see it all through and bought a video of the original (that had been digitally reflogged)... and it's good. Haunting. I don't know why I used that though. I just felt like it at the time! I think I had some intuitive idea of it connecting to my art/writing project.

BTW I picked up that Kubrick was a very keen chess player.

Apr-06-13  slakovNELF: 13. Bd4?! bad novelty or you've seen it before guys? the kid underestimated Chucky....
Apr-10-13  Ulhumbrus: After 8...Bb4 suppose that instead of 9 f3 White offers a pawn sacrifice by 9 Qd3. On 9...Bxc3 10 Qxc3 Nxe4 11 Nxe6! dxe6 12 Qxg7 White has a strong attack which Black can't stop by 12...Qe5 because on 13 Qxe5 Nxe5 14 Bd4! pins the knight and regains the piece with advantage eg 14...f6 15 f3

However on 9 Qd3 Black does not have to do what Nimzowitsch says is always inadvisable, namely, to play to win a pawn while his development is still unfinished. Black can instead try still 9...Ne7 supporting the advance ...d5. Then White can offer the pawn sacrifice 10 e5 eg 10...Qxe5 11 a3 or 10..Ng4 11 Bf4

Apr-12-13  Archswindler: <Ulhumbrus>

9. Qd3?? is complete rubbish and is met by 9... Ne5 10. Qe2 Bxc3 11. bxc3 Nxe4 and white has lost a pawn and his position is a mess. Note that 12. Bf4 is met by 12... Nd3+.

Apr-13-13  RookFile: For this type of a game, 1. c4 would have been an excellent choice. You postpone hostilities to the middlegame and get a chance to see how Kramnik is doing on the other board. There's half a chance that Ivanchuk would lose on time as well.
Apr-28-13  Conrad93: Carlsen thinks this is drawn:

click for larger view

What a joker...

Premium Chessgames Member
  perfidious: <notyetagm.....Which Ivanchuk will show up? The genius.....or the time-mismanaging booger-eating moron?>

Classic-about busted a gut on reading this.

Spin the wheel-it will come up red or black, cos there is no zero on this one.

Jul-29-13  Lovuschka:

click for larger view

(variation of this game: 91.Re1+ Kf2)

As John Roycroft and Harold van der Heijden remark in EG 193, after 91.Re1+ Kf2 the final point of the Saavedra study would have been reached.

click for larger view

G.E. Barbier & F. Saavedra
Weekly Citizen (Glasgow), 4 & 18 May 1895 (modification)

White wins
1.c7 Rd6+ 2.Kb5 Rd5+ 3.Kb4 Rd4+ 4.Kb3 Rd3+ (or 4.Kc3 Rd1) 5.Kc2 Rd4!! 6.c8R!! Ra4 7.Kb3! wins

click for larger view

While the motif is much older, the Saavedra study remains its most famous rendition.

Dec-11-13  ThomasMetzenthin: I was wondering why the opportunity to connect pawns on 23. by pawn taking the bishop cxd323. instead of 23. kxd3.wasn't taken?
Mar-31-14  chesssalamander: This game should be on Ivanchuk's Notable Games! Great game by Chuky!
Mar-31-14  Balmo: Lovely finish by Ivanchuk, pushing the h pawn up the board, then cutting off the king, and then finally attacking the rook and pushing the e pawn which, combined with the mating threats, forces Carlsen to resign.
Jan-16-15  jrofrano: This game was the number six game of 2013:
Dec-02-15  kamagong24: Carlsen got outgrined
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