|
< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 2 OF 2 ·
Later Kibitzing> |
| Sep-20-17 | | Altairvega: The horse will be sacrificed to open lines 29 Nc6 if accepted the Queen will check from a6 , if declined the idea is to check from d7. If the black Queen fhinders checking from d7 the White Queen will be sacrificed at ed8 with Re8 checkmate. 29.Nc6 Qg7 30 Qd8+ Rxd8 31. Rxd8+-
If 29..bxc6 30 Qa6+ Kb8 31.Qxa2 to be followed by Ra1. Okay I missed the
29..Qe8 39 Qh3+ |
|
| Sep-20-17 | | Granny O Doul: <ndg2> Yeah, 31. Qxa2 wins a tempo by hitting the rook at g8. One thing top players are good at, I've noticed, is seeing all the way across the board. |
|
| Sep-20-17 | | stst: N-sac Wed:
29.Nc6 bxN
30.Qxa6+ Kb8
31.QxB will cash the B while attacking the R |
|
| Sep-20-17 | | mriddle: what about after 29. Nc6 bxc6 30. Qxa6+ Kb8 31. Qxa2 Qg5 ? Seems like black's threat on g2 makes it trickier to follow the Qa6, Ra1, Qa8# plan without being exposed to a bunch of checks at least |
|
| Sep-20-17 | | mriddle: I suppose maybe if they play a couple defensive moves first like f3 and Rd2, they can still follow those up with the Qa6, Ra2, Qa8# mate, since I don't see much that black can do with their extra moves to stop it |
|
| Sep-20-17 | | mriddle: Sorry, I though of one more thing: if black plays: 29. Nc6 bxc6 30. Qxa6+ Kb8 31. Qxa2 Qg5 32. f3 Rd8, doesn't this prevent the mate by either forcing a trade, or forcing the Rook off the d file early, allowing the king to escape. Or am I missing something, as usual? |
|
| Sep-20-17 | | Walter Glattke: 30.-Qe6 31.Ne7 wins the quality,
29.-Qh3+ wins a pawn, 29.Nc6+ bxc6
30.Qa6+ Kb8 31.Qxa2 Qg5 wins a pawn,
29.-c6 30.Kb8 b5 also wins.
29.Qh3+ is easy, "combination" not necessary. |
|
| Sep-20-17 | | BxChess: <mriddle> Good points. But in your last line 29. Nc6 bxc6 30. Qxa6+ Kb8 31. Qxa2 Qg5 32. f3 Rd8, Black is killed off by 33 Ra1, finally. |
|
Sep-20-17
 | | FSR: I saw 29.Nc6 Qe8 30.Qh3+, but didn't see what to do after 30...Be6. The answer, I now see, is 31.Rd8+!! What a shot! |
|
| Sep-20-17 | | mqhelisi: I had calculated the bxc6 route right up to Ra1 right
but the Qh3 i saw and thought has an equality of 30...Be6 BUT Alas missed 31. Rd8+ 1-0 |
|
| Sep-20-17 | | jith1207: I have been looking at this for the past hour (with some breaks), and I had looked at the interesting positions Qh3, Qd7 Qd8 supported by N at c6 at different juncture until at one point, when I was able to understand the order of the possible play and probable defending positions clearly to find that there are more than one way that White could attack while the opponent cannot defend all threats at the same time. This does not happen often for me. |
|
| Sep-20-17 | | jith1207: Yes, Rd8 was the cherry at the top, but the game would go on to end in mate with Qd8. |
|
| Sep-20-17 | | gofer: I really don't think this is a <Wednesday> level POTD. The finish is beautiful
but it is also multi-tiered and has several variations to follow... <29 Nc6+ ...>
White threatens 30 Qd7# and 30 Qd8+ Rxd8 31 Rxd8#. But what is worse is that
black has no good defence with the queen!
29 ... Qe8
30 Qh3+! ...
30 ... Qd7
31 Qxd7#
30 ... Be6
31 Rd8+! Qxd8
32 Qxe6+ Qd7
33 Qxg8+ Qd8 34 Qxd8#
30 ... Qe6
31 Qxe6+ Bxe6
32 Ne7+ Kb8
33 Nxg8 Bxg8
34 Rd8+ +-
So black must accept a very weak king position... <29 ... bxc3>
<30 Qxa3+ Kb8>
<31 Qxa2 Qg7!>
<32 f3 ...>
click for larger viewBlack has majors issues with a weak back rank (i.e. threats for 1 Rd8+ Kb2 2 Qa8#)
and also a very weak A file (i.e. 1 Ra1 ... 2 Qa8#), so what should black do? Well trying to do nothing achieves nothing!!!
32 ... h6/h5/Qg6/Qg5/Qg4/Qg3/Kb7
33 Ra1 Kc8
34 Qxg8+! Qxg8
35 Ra8+ +-
click for larger view32 ... Rc8?
33 Ra1+ +-
32 ... Rd8?
33 Rxd8 Kb7
34 Qa1#
32 ... Kc8
33 Qa8#
<32 ... Re8> (Rf8 seems worse) <33 Ra1 Kc8>
<34 Qa8+ Kd7>
<35 Rd1+ Ke7>
<36 Qxc6 +->
click for larger viewIt's still not over, 8 moves into the combination, but the end is
very close! But this is hardly the stuff of our usual <Wednesday>! |
|
Sep-20-17
| | FSR: I agree with your assessment of the difficult of this POTD, <gofer>. It may be <Medium/Easy> if one is a GM, but for most of us it's considerably more difficult than that. |
|
Sep-20-17
 | | Richard Taylor: <FSR: I saw 29.Nc6 Qe8 30.Qh3+, but didn't see what to do after 30...Be6. The answer, I now see, is 31.Rd8+!! What a shot!> Yes! I didn't even see the intervention on e6 and assumed it was mate next move. Qh3+ is hard to see. (Usually for the defender.) I think if I had this position and time I would calculate all the moves fairly easily, make double checks and go for it. It is not quite in the too hard category. But it is a good game by the young woman player. |
|
| Sep-20-17 | | malt: Had
29.Nc6 Qe8 30.Qh3+ Qe6
(30...Be6 31.Rd8+ Q:d8 32.Q:e6+ Qd7
(33...Q:g8+ )
31.Q:e6+ B:e6 32.Ne7+ Kb8 33.N:g8
29.Nc6 bc6 30.Q:a6+ Kb8 31.Q:a2 Qg7
32.f3 |
|
| Sep-20-17 | | patzer2: <Richard Taylor: <FSR: I saw 29.Nc6 Qe8 30.Qh3+, but didn't see what to do after 30...Be6. The answer, I now see, is 31.Rd8+!! What a shot!> Yes! I didn't even see the intervention on e6 and assumed it was mate next move.> I didn't anticipate 29...Qe8, but following Black's responses move-by-move I was able to quickly find 30. Qh3+! Be6 31. Rd8+! Qxd8 32. Qxe6+ Qd7 33. Qxg8+ Qd8 (33...Qe8 34. Qxd8#) 34. Qxd8#. After 30...Be6, I was fortunate 31. Rd8+! (forcing mate-in-three) was available. So in response to Dirty Harry's question "Do you feel lucky punk?" I do indeed feel lucky today! |
|
| Sep-20-17 | | Cheapo by the Dozen: Nice one.
It's easy to see that if Black accepts the sacrifice, White is ahead a pawn (passed and almost immediately protected), and still has strong attacking chances (I think she'll at least pick up the c6 pawn as well while Black staves off mate). It's also pretty easy to see that ... Qe8 is the only way to decline the sacrifice, due to White mating threats at both d7 and d8. A little trickier is finding Qh3+. Once one sees it at all, one has to realize that both e6 interpositions fail to forks -- the knight fork at e7 in both cases, and in one case the rook fork at d8 as a precursor as well. |
|
| Sep-20-17 | | saturn2: After 29 Nc6 I saw the lines
a) 29..bxN 30 Qxa6 followed by QxB with a double attack on king and rook b) 29..Qe8 30 Qh3+ Be6 31 Rd8+ QxR 32 QxB QxR 33 QxRg8 QxQ Ne7 and white will be up a knight |
|
| Sep-20-17 | | kevin86: A hit and hold check (mate) |
|
| Sep-20-17 | | Reji Reji: 29. Nc6 bxc6
30. Qxa3+ Kb8
31. c6 next move mate? |
|
Sep-20-17
 | | Jonathan Sarfati: <Reji Reji:>
31. c6 is illegal because the Black ♙ is in the way. Just 31. ♕xa2 threatening both the ♖g8 and 32. ♖a1 mating. |
|
Sep-20-17
 | | PawnSac: < Richard Taylor: Qh3+ is hard to see. (Usually for the defender.) > Actually Qh3+ was first move i saw. When solving the puzzle for white,
the fist thing I usually do is identify all the possible checks, and
Qh3 was the ONLY one! But when played as a first move there was no
followup with any great punch. After Qh3+ Kb8 the Nc6+ check is only
good if the Q was on d3. So i looked at Nc6! as the first move because
of Qxa6+ and Qxa2 attacking the R. So i solved the capture line first: 29. Nc6 bxc6 30. Qxa6+ Kb8 31. Qxa2 Qg7 32. f3 and black must give up the Q for R after Ra1 but realizing the bxc6 capture was not forced, i began to work on the alternate line: 29.Nc6 Qe8 30.Qh3+ Be6 31.Rd8+ Qxd8 32.Qxe6+ Qd7 33.Qxg8+ Qd8 34.Qxd8# After i saw the Be6 possibility the Rd8+ body slam popped up in my eyes and thought.. "YEA! this has got to be the cruncher", but i honestly thought black would see this and realize the knight capture was forced to avoid mate, and that the actual game would follow that line. Hmmm. In any case, it was a nice game |
|
Sep-20-17
| | Richard Taylor: <patzer2: <Richard Taylor: <FSR: I saw 29.Nc6 Qe8 30.Qh3+, but didn't see what to do after 30...Be6. The answer, I now see, is 31.Rd8+!! What a shot!>
Yes! I didn't even see the intervention on e6 and assumed it was mate next move.> I didn't anticipate 29...Qe8, but following Black's responses move-by-move I was able to quickly find 30. Qh3+! Be6 31. Rd8+! Qxd8 32. Qxe6+ Qd7 33. Qxg8+ Qd8 (33...Qe8 34. Qxd8#) 34. Qxd8#. After 30...Be6, I was fortunate 31. Rd8+! (forcing mate-in-three) was available. So in response to Dirty Harry's question "Do you feel lucky punk?" I do indeed feel lucky today!> That's great!
I saw the check on h3, but missed all the other details I thought it forced mate! You know some people cant calculate any moves.
My son who is now 45 and played chess on and off and endures me playing over chess games and trying to solve puzzles cant see ANY moves ahead at all*. Unless I show him the moves. The he can "see" it. However he likes to play through chess games as they unfold (if we do play over a game), like an adventure. I find calculating difficult and also mathematics was never my forte. But it is significant and interesting that people who have no ability as such find the game fascinating. We are lucky to be able to remember anything or to "see" anything at all. If you see the first move here that is very good indeed. *(He tells me this all the time, and it is a source of sorrow to him he left school too early. In the US they refer to that as "without graduating"). |
|
| Sep-20-17 | | outplayer: After 29.Nc6 Qe8 30.Qh3 Be6 the move 31.Rd8+ is easy to find. I really only calculated and saw until 30.Qh3+. |
|
 |
|
< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 2 OF 2 ·
Later Kibitzing> |
Kibitzing
