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| Dec-08-17 | | not not: I meant rook c7 |
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| Dec-08-17 | | Sularus: 59. Rxf5?? |
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| Dec-08-17 | | Ulhumbrus: It seems that when playing 59 Rxf5? Nakamura as well as the GMs overlooked in their calculations that after 62 Rc8+ Kd2 63 Nb3+ Black has 63...Kd3! followed by 64...Rb1!! and White can't maintain the blockade. GM Seirawan said that Nakamura relied on tactical calculation when it was not necessary and he had a clear plan instead. |
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Dec-08-17
 | | Sneaky: I bet steam is blowing out of Nakamura's ears right now. So frustrating. |
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| Dec-08-17 | | Ulhumbrus: One lesson is that if you are going to rely on tactical calculation you had better not overlook any lawful move available to the opponent at all. |
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| Dec-08-17 | | Marmot PFL: < Ulhumbrus> Even w/o that white mistake I am not sure white could still win after letting the pawn reach c2. At that point the knight is completely passive and can be attacked by rook or king. |
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Dec-08-17
 | | WannaBe: Is this game still going? Did they break for tea? Aren't they missing Friday Happy Hour in London? |
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| Dec-08-17 | | Marmot PFL: remembering what Nimzo said about always blockading the passed pawn. |
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| Dec-08-17 | | not not: Even when you are winning, its still draw vs Carlsen. How dishearting! |
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Dec-08-17
 | | An Englishman: Good Morning: Looking at 68...Rb1; 69.Rxc2,Kxc2; 70.Nd4+,Kd3; 71.Nf5. Can White hold this? |
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| Dec-08-17 | | not not: Disheartening I meant |
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| Dec-08-17 | | tuttifrutty: black to move...resign. |
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| Dec-08-17 | | Ulhumbrus: < Marmot PFL: < Ulhumbrus> Even w/o that white mistake I am not sure white could still win after letting the pawn reach c2. At that point the knight is completely passive and can be attacked by rook or king.> One analysis from the computer analysis suggests that if White refrains from the mistake 59 Rxf5? the winning method is to manoeuvre the rook to d3 to get Black's king on the c file and then support the check Rc3+ by means of the move Ne2. |
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| Dec-08-17 | | Marmot PFL: <Ulhumbrus> I'll turn on chess comp and have a look later, too tired right now. |
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| Dec-08-17 | | Ulhumbrus: In my previoud message I meant to say <in one sequence from the computer analysis> |
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| Dec-08-17 | | whiteshark: That Naka feeling - when you have spoiled a winning position vs MC again |
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| Dec-08-17 | | Ulhumbrus: Nakamura said that the capture 37 Bxa4 was really stupid and that he should not have played it, that he had thought already that the game was pretty much over at this point and that he had a really straightforward win by playing just 37 Nf5+ followed by 38 Nd4 and it would have been tactically over.. He said ( amongst other things) <It Happens> |
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Dec-08-17
 | | Breunor: According to Stockfish, the win was lost by white on move 59. Ra3 keeps a 2.6 point lead; Rxa5 is rated at 0. I guess cutting the black king from the pawn was the best idea. |
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| Dec-08-17 | | notyetagm: Naka can't beat Carlsen even when he is up by a piece. |
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Dec-08-17
 | | chancho: Sleeping soundly tonight will not be in the cards for Naka. |
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| Dec-08-17 | | SirRuthless: A beautiful game from both sides. Beautiful in the aggression and preparedness of Nakamura and the toughness and precision of Carlsen. A draw is a fair result and I certainly enjoyed it. |
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| Dec-09-17 | | Gregor Fenrir: Some mating lines found by analysis.sesse.net:
After 42... Ke6 White mates in 45: 43. Kf2 Rd7 44. Kf3 Rc7 45. Ke2 Rc8 46. Rb5 Kf6 47. Kd3 Kg7 48. Ne3 Kg6 49. Rb3 Rd8+ 50. Kxc3 Kg5 51. Rb4 Rd7 52. Rd4 Rc7+ 53. Kd3 Ra7 54. Rd5+ Kf6 55. Ke4 Ra4+ 56. Rd4 Ra6 57. Kf4 Kg6 58. Kg4 Rb6 59. Nf5 Rb7 60. g3 f6 61. Ne3 Rb6 62. Nd5 Rb5 63. Nf4+ Kf7 64. Rd5 Rb3 65. Rf5 Rb4 66. Kh3 Rb8 67. Nd5 Rh8+ 68. Kg4 Rg8+ 69. Kf4 Ke6 70. Rxf6+ Kd7 71. g4 Kc8 72. g5 Kb7 73. g6 Ka8 74. Kf5 Ka7 75. Rf7+ Ka6 76. g7 Ka5 77. Nf6 Ka4 78. Nxg8 Ka3 79. Nf6 Ka2 80. g8=Q Kb3 81. Qb8+ Kc2 82. Rd7 Kc1 83. Qb1+ Kxb1 84. Rd2 Ka1 85. Ne4 Kb1 86. Nc3+ Ka1 87. Ra2# After 50... Kg5 White mates in 21: 51. Ra2 Kf6 52. Ne3 Rc5 53. Rc2 Kg5 54. g3 Kf6 55. Ng2 Rc6 56. Nf4 Kg5 57. Ne2 Ra6 58. Rxc3 Ra1 59. Nf4 Rb1 60. Nd5 Rf1+ 61. Kg2 Rb1 62. Rc5 Rb2+ 63. Kf3 Rb3+ 64. Ne3 Kg6 65. Ra5 Rc3 66. Kf4 Rd3 67. Nxf5 Kh5 68. g4+ Kg6 69. g5 Kh5 70. Ra6 Rd1 71. Rh6# After 58... Rc8 White mates in 42: 59. Ra3 Rc7 60. Re3 Kd5 61. Kxf5 Rf7+ 62. Kg4 Kd4 63. Rd3+ Kc4 64. Rf3 Rg7+ 65. Kh3 Rc7 66. Kg3 Kd4 67. Kf2 Ke4 68. g3 Ke5 69. Ke2 Ke4 70. Rf4+ Ke5 71. Kd2 Rc8 72. Ne2 Rc5 73. Rf3 Rc4 74. Rc3 c1=Q+ 75. Nxc1 Ra4 76. Ke2 Kd4 77. Re3 Kc5 78. Kf3 Kb4 79. g4 Ra5 80. Kf4 Ka4 81. g5 Ra6 82. Kf5 Ra5+ 83. Re5 Ka3 84. Rxa5+ Kb2 85. g6 Kb1 86. g7 Kb2 87. g8=Q Kc2 88. Qb3+ Kd2 89. Re5 Kxc1 90. Qc2+ Kxc2 91. Re3 Kd1 92. Ke4 Kc2 93. Kf3 Kb1 94. Ke2 Kc2 95. Ke1 Kb1 96. Kd1 Kb2 97. Kd2 Ka1 98. Kc1 Ka2 99. Kc2 Ka1 100. Ra3# After 59. Rxf5 evaluation of the game flatlines. |
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| Dec-09-17 | | patzer2: In deep computer hindsight, 59. Ra3! +- (+2.26 @ 39 ply, Stockfish 8) looks like a win:
( [Stockfish 8 64] 39:+2.26 59.Ra3 Kd5 60.Rf3 Ke6 61.Ke3 Kf6 62.Kd2 Rc4 63.Rg3 f4 64.Rf3 Kg5 65.Ne2 Re4 66.Nc3 Re1 67.Kxc2 Kg4 68.Kd3 Rg1 69.Rf2 Kg3 70.Ne4+ Kg4 71.Ke2 Ra1 72.Rf3 Ra2+ 73.Nd2 Ra1 74.Kf2 Ra2 75.Rd3 Ra8 76.Nf3 Ra2+ 77.Rd2 Ra8 78.Nd4 Rd8 79.Kf1 Rc8 80.Ne2 f3 81.Rd4+ Kg5 82.gxf3 Rc2 ) |
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| Dec-09-17 | | Ulhumbrus: One interesting question is why the exchange of pieces after 37 Bxa4 helps Black instead of White. Both Edward Lasker and Wesley So have indicated that each piece exchange increases the relative superiority of the player who has a piece more. Alekhine says in his book on the 1927 tournament that Capablanca's simplifying methods were on some occasions completely out of place and might have let his advantage slip or even pass to the opponent. This suggests that simplification can sometimes be inadvisable. What made it inadvisable here?
Let assume that exchanging a pair of pieces helps White if other things are equal. This suggests that other things are not equal.
In that case what does Black gain that he would not gain otherwise? One answer is that if we look at what happened in the game, Black's passed pawn increases in value. In addition to this Black's king becomes more active than White's king. The effect of this was to make the win much more difficult, so much so that Nakamura who perhaps did not find at first a winning plan was tempted to rely on a calculation which turned out to contain a fault. So one answer is that other things are not equal after White exchanges pieces: Black's king and the passed c pawn become more active, enough in fact to reduce White's overall superiority and make the win more difficult. As for the winning plan, in order to win White has to create a superiority of force at at least one point. His pieces have to do at least one important piece of work that Black's pieces cannot match. That means that White has to gain the most he can out of his pieces, perhaps partly by hindering Black's ability to get the most out of Black's men. One sequence from the computer analysis has suggested that if White manoeuvres his king to d3, his rook to f2 ( from which the rook both attacks the f5 pawn and covers the c2 square) and his knight to d4 ( from which the knight can attack both the f5 pawn and the c2 square) Black's rook cannot then hold on to both the c pawn and the f pawn. |
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Dec-09-17
 | | MissScarlett: Naka said the game reminded him a lot of Kramnik vs Carlsen, 2010 (which he wrongly dated to 2012/13), but I think that was a greater miracle save. |
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